1. Bartow, FL
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    09 Aug '07 17:28
    I would like some input from members of the Southern Baptist denomination. My wife and I are lifetime Nazarenes (N) and have recently started going to a large Southern Baptist (SB) church in our area. We are choosing the church primarily because of its excellent children’s programs. We have a 2 year old girl and a -3 week old girl.

    We are struggling with our decision, my wife more than I, because there are many theological differences. Nazarenes are Wesleyan, and SBs are Calvinistic. Although most of these differences are not ones that affect the daily walk of a Christian, we are concerned of our children learning principals that we don’t quite agree with.

    Some of these differences are as follows:

    Once Saved Always Saved: SB believes that once they are saved, they cannot lose their salvation. N believes that one can accept Christ, then refuse and lose their salvation.

    Predestination: SB believes that everything is set in stone and that our salvation is determined before we are born. N believes that we have free will throughout the course of our lives to accept salvation or not.

    Sanctification: N believes in sanctification. SB does not.

    Baptism: N believes that baptism is a statement of faith, only a ceremony to tell the world that “Hey, I’m a Christian.” I’m not sure what SB believes and would like more clarification. I think SB believes that baptism my be required to enter heaven.

    If any would like to comment on these things, especially Baptism, I would greatly appreciate it.
  2. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 17:31
    Scary.

    Why not worry more about teaching your children to think for themselves?
  3. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 17:402 edits
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    I would like some input from members of the Southern Baptist denomination. My wife and I are lifetime Nazarenes (N) and have recently started going to a large Southern Baptist (SB) church in our area. We are choosing the church primarily because of its excellent children’s programs. We have a 2 year old girl and a -3 week old girl.

    We are struggling ...[text shortened]... If any would like to comment on these things, especially Baptism, I would greatly appreciate it.
    So far I have heard:

    1) we are choosing a church for what is best for our girls.
    2) we like the N church but have chosen the SB church because of our girls.
    3) we do not even agree with the theology of the SB church and are concerned that our girls will learn wrong things.

    Although I think your love for your girls is admirable, I would have to say that your love for you God should come first, or at least Biblically speaking. So to answer your question, instead of focusing on your girls as your primary concern, focus rather on what God would have you to do. "Seek ye the kingdom of God an ALL these things shall be added unto you." Notice it does not say to seek what is best for your girls but that if you seek God the best way you know how, your girls will be taken care of in the process. "ALL things work together for good for them who love God and are called according to his purpose." You must believe that. The only question becomes, where is God calling you and do you love him more than your girls?
  4. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    09 Aug '07 17:41
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    I would like some input from members of the Southern Baptist denomination. My wife and I are lifetime Nazarenes (N) and have recently started going to a large Southern Baptist (SB) church in our area. We are choosing the church primarily because of its excellent children’s programs. We have a 2 year old girl and a -3 week old girl.

    We are struggling ...[text shortened]... If any would like to comment on these things, especially Baptism, I would greatly appreciate it.
    Their children's program isn't all that excellent if it's teaching things you don't believe. Why not go to a church that matches your beliefs and teach your children yourself what you believe?
  5. Bartow, FL
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    09 Aug '07 17:42
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Scary.

    Why not worry more about teaching your children to think for themselves?
    hmm...I certainly appreciate your opinion and would be happy to discuss child development spiritually, psycologically, or any other way you would like. But your concern for my child's individuality, which is not in jeopardy, is not the topic of this thread. Thank you for caring, though.
  6. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 17:52
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    hmm...I certainly appreciate your opinion and would be happy to discuss child development spiritually, psycologically, or any other way you would like. But your concern for my child's individuality, which is not in jeopardy, is not the topic of this thread. Thank you for caring, though.
    You're very welcome.
  7. Bartow, FL
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    09 Aug '07 17:58
    Pawnhandler and whodey,

    I appreciate your views and input. These are some of the ideas that we are struggling with.

    I'm finding it difficult to say what I want here. The truth is that the Holy Spirit is moving in this SB church and you can feel it. Some may think it is important to attend a church where you agree with every theological point, but it is more important, I think, to attend a church where you are being spiritually fed.

    The church that we left has become stagnant. It is enormous, and therefore very difficult to change. Their focus has changed to one of attracting people, growing attendance, building gymnasiums and coffee shops. It has created an almost snobby country club mentality that does not invite the Holy Spirit.

    I would rather my babies grow up to be strong, enthusiastic Christians with slight differences in opinions than be spiritually dead. I would rather hear the Word of God preached with conviction than watered down to be more appealing.

    We are finding everything we need in this new church, but want to understand our theological differences better. If they are too significant to abide by, then we will need to keep looking for a church home.
  8. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 18:033 edits
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    Pawnhandler and whodey,

    I appreciate your views and input. These are some of the ideas that we are struggling with.

    I'm finding it difficult to say what I want here. The truth is that the Holy Spirit is moving in this SB church and you can feel it. Some may think it is important to attend a church where you agree with every theological point, but ...[text shortened]... If they are too significant to abide by, then we will need to keep looking for a church home.
    Notice that I did not tell you where to go. That is between you and your God. All we can do is attend to what we think God's will is for us in each of our lives and this should come first above all else. We will then answer to him in kind. Also, do not think it an either or problem. Must you attend one or the other? Had you prayed about other alternatives? Mind you, I am only asking and not telling you that you need another alternative.
  9. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 18:121 edit
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    The truth is that the Holy Spirit is moving in this SB church and you can feel it. Some may think it is important to attend a church where you agree with every theological point, but it is more important, I think, to attend a church where you are being spiritually fed.
    For the sake of your children, why worry about more than the instruction of the basic concepts of morality? What would they care about theologoical minutiae like the items you listed above? Find a church that teaches them tolerance and respect, the rest they can learn on their own when they're older and able to comprehend it.

    As for you and your wife, why would there be a need to go to a church that conforms to your every belief? Go where it's fun. Go where it feels right.
  10. Bartow, FL
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    09 Aug '07 18:18
    Wow, I'm speechless. Davlar, you actually said something that contributed to the conversation.

    I'm just kidding. Just getting you back for earlier 😉

    Totally agree and that is the plan. I want to understand them better for my own sake, and also so I can help explain them to my wife. I want to understand the theology of where I go to church.
  11. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 18:272 edits
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    Wow, I'm speechless. Davlar, you actually said something that contributed to the conversation.

    I'm just kidding. Just getting you back for earlier 😉

    Totally agree and that is the plan. I want to understand them better for my own sake, and also so I can help explain them to my wife. I want to understand the theology of where I go to church.
    You stated that you didn't want your children learning principles you don't agree with. I think children shouldn't learn theological principles at all, especially those concerning salvation and damnation. Just my opinion.
  12. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    09 Aug '07 19:11
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    I would like some input from members of the Southern Baptist denomination. My wife and I are lifetime Nazarenes (N) and have recently started going to a large Southern Baptist (SB) church in our area. We are choosing the church primarily because of its excellent children’s programs. We have a 2 year old girl and a -3 week old girl.

    We are struggling ...[text shortened]... If any would like to comment on these things, especially Baptism, I would greatly appreciate it.
    I'm afraid the Southern Baptists are right about predestination. The existence of an omnipotent and omniscient god is wholly incompatible with human free will. IF there is such a god, then the universe, and everything that occurs in it, is predestined. Free will can only exist (if it may be said to exist at all) in conjunction with a god that is not omnipotent, or who is not omniscient.
  13. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 19:20
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I'm afraid the Southern Baptists are right about predestination. The existence of an omnipotent and omniscient god is wholly incompatible with human free will. IF there is such a god, then the universe, and everything that occurs in it, is predestined. Free will can only exist (if it may be said to exist at all) in conjunction with a god that is not omnipotent, or who is not omniscient.
    Free will can only exist (if it may be said to exist at all) in conjunction with a god that is not omnipotent, or who is not omniscient.

    True. If man had absolute freedom. But man does not have absolute freedom. You for example, did not choose your parents, place of birth, gender etc. did ya?
  14. Bartow, FL
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    09 Aug '07 19:28
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I'm afraid the Southern Baptists are right about predestination. The existence of an omnipotent and omniscient god is wholly incompatible with human free will. IF there is such a god, then the universe, and everything that occurs in it, is predestined. Free will can only exist (if it may be said to exist at all) in conjunction with a god that is not omnipotent, or who is not omniscient.
    *rolling up my sleeves*

    Ah rwingett, so we jump right into the meat of it. Although these are anwers that we shall only know after death, I can say, very strongly, than you are incorrect.

    God can be omniscient and omnipotent, and yet allow us to have free will. God can know the future without question, yet allow us our free will. God can know what I will do tomorrow, and yet I will still have complete control over what I do. Yet no matter what it is that I choose to do, he will have been right. Confusing? Yeah. But I actually can justify all of this and will, if you like. But it will take some time. If you have read any of my other posts today (Wow I'm posting a lot) you'll see that I'm a long-winded fellow. And this topic is complicated. So I'll have to get back with you.

    However I will add that I don't know if predestination is correct or not. I don't believe it is, but many people do. I just know that it doesn't have to be true in order for God to be God.
  15. Joined
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    09 Aug '07 19:55
    Originally posted by AProdigy
    Pawnhandler and whodey,

    I appreciate your views and input. These are some of the ideas that we are struggling with.

    I'm finding it difficult to say what I want here. The truth is that the Holy Spirit is moving in this SB church and you can feel it. Some may think it is important to attend a church where you agree with every theological point, but ...[text shortened]... If they are too significant to abide by, then we will need to keep looking for a church home.
    you know it is not so much about what church you go to but bleaving in Jesus Christ accepting him into your heart I personally go to a babist church and I like it but the main thing is to read your Bible and Pray and be the best Christian you can be.
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