Raising the bar.

When a person is interested in a certain subject and new knowledge comes along covering that subject in detail....... the person readily accepts that new knowledge with delight and without delay.

Actually the new knowledge that avails itself is readily taken on-board especially if it replaces beliefs that are in error.

Why do persons hold onto false beliefs.

There can only be three reasons for persons to hold onto their false beliefs.

1. they are less intelligent and actually cannot distinguish true from false.

2. they have invested so much time and energy in their chosen field that loosing the pay-off,s that their chosen field awards them is something they cannot do.

3. they are thoroughly dishonest.

Truth and falsity is obvious to determine for the honest person ........so it could not be that the truth is not clear.

In every corner of this planet we witness life coming from life and dishonest science is telling us that life comes from non-life.

Dishonest science is also telling us that all the functional complex arrangements we observe as far as the eye can see is coming about by random chance (we shouldn't be here) but by chance we are here and with every conceivable luxurey to forfill almost every desire.

Dishonest science will tell you that the 8.400.000 species of life came from a muddy puddle without thought, direction, plan or cause.

The obvious nature of spirit is that it is indestructible and eternal..... but dishonest religion is telling us that the soul will be destroyed if the person doesn't accept its teachings.

Dishonest religion will tell us that '' thou shalt not kill" actually means "thou shalt open slaughter houses and kill abundantly" to please the uncontrolled tongue.

Dishonest religion will tell you that dead bodies will jump from the grave.

Dishonest religion is telling us that this is the only universe God created and that you will only get one chance to love God in this one life or else you will burn in the lake of fire after being sent there by the unconditional love of the most compassionate and merciful infinite God ever conceived.

So raise the bar and reject falsity where you find it.

Originally posted by Dasa
When a person is interested in a certain subject and new knowledge comes along covering that subject in detail....... the person readily accepts that new knowledge with delight and without delay.

Actually the new knowledge that avails itself is readily taken on-board especially if it replaces beliefs that are in error.

Why do persons hold onto false belie ...[text shortened]... ul infinite God ever conceived.

So raise the bar and reject falsity where you find it.

Science is not dishonest. It is just some of the scientist.
Religion is only as dishonest as its leaders. You apparently
think Jesus is dishonest and a liar. Most of us who call
ourselves Christians see Him as the way, the truth, and the life.
I classify your religion as pagan and false. It is just one of
many inspired by Satan in his fight against God.

Originally posted by Dasa
When a person is interested in a certain subject and new knowledge comes along covering that subject in detail....... the person readily accepts that new knowledge with delight and without delay.

Actually the new knowledge that avails itself is readily taken on-board especially if it replaces beliefs that are in error.

Why do persons hold onto false belie ...[text shortened]... ul infinite God ever conceived.

So raise the bar and reject falsity where you find it.

Dasa

You've just lectured yourself with your own words : "2. they have invested so much time and energy in their chosen field that loosing the pay-off,s that their chosen field awards them is something they cannot do."

I believe you are totally blinded by your believes. As a Christian I belief that Jesus is the way to God, and through Him alone. God is eternal and so our our souls. We must not forget that God punishes those who do not obey Him. Thus if you believe that irrespective of what person you are you will still go to heaven when you die you are in for a big surprise. If you belief that God exist and belief in reincarnation you are a fool. The reason why I say so is that every time you die and come back as something else, when will you live with God then? This doesn't make sense.

I can also now do just whatever I want, kill, murder, rape, steel, etc as this life will end and I will get another and another and another to do like I please. This belief makes people think they are gods which is false. This takes morality off the map.

God is ruler of the universe and I agree with what you're saying about false science, but God has rules. We have one life to live and how we live it indicates our final destination. Well not entirely but I am sure you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Nicksten
Dasa

You've just lectured yourself with your own words : "2. they have invested so much time and energy in their chosen field that loosing the pay-off,s that their chosen field awards them is something they cannot do."

I believe you are totally blinded by your believes. As a Christian I belief that Jesus is the way to God, and through Him alone. God i ...[text shortened]... e it indicates our final destination. Well not entirely but I am sure you know what I mean.

This is just pure brilliance Nicksten. You inform Dasa of this -

I believe you are totally blinded by your believes. *

* beliefs

and then demonstrate exactly the same thing you've just accused him off!! You couldn't make this up.

LOL Yeah I can't argue with my spelling being wrong - or would it be false cause of the thread we're in?

Originally posted by Nicksten
Dasa

You've just lectured yourself with your own words : "2. they have invested so much time and energy in their chosen field that loosing the pay-off,s that their chosen field awards them is something they cannot do."

I believe you are totally blinded by your believes. As a Christian I belief that Jesus is the way to God, and through Him alone. God i ...[text shortened]... e it indicates our final destination. Well not entirely but I am sure you know what I mean.

You return to God when you love God without any tinge of materialism.

Reincarnation is offered to the soul which has not developed this love.

Christianity tells us that we only have one life to decide our eternal future in heaven and hell.

How is that possible?

Some persons take to spiritual life later in life, so for the person who dies at a young age they have lost any chance to do this.

When the soul takes rebirth it is the same soul but has a different body just like changing your clothes and taking off the old cloths and putting on new cloths.

If the soul can take birth once, then it can take birth many times....why not?

Reincarnation does not affect morality...........how can you conclude this?

Of course God gives us directions to come to him............I have not said otherwise

Mankind has the Vedas to give him knowledge of spiritual living and instructions to return to him.

You have hastingly put your comments together without any thought.

Originally posted by Dasa
You return to God when you love God without any tinge of materialism.

Reincarnation is offered to the soul which has not developed this love.

Christianity tells us that we only have one life to decide our eternal future in heaven and hell.

How is that possible?

Some persons take to spiritual life later in life, so for the person who dies at a young ...[text shortened]... ructions to return to him.

You have hastingly put your comments together without any thought.

Reincarnation is offered to the soul which has not developed this love.
What kind of love is offered to a soul that has not developed yet. Define develop and love.

Christianity tells us that we only have one life to decide our eternal future in heaven and hell.
How is that possible?
Some persons take to spiritual life later in life, so for the person who dies at a young age they have lost any chance to do this.
When is one ready to decide I have done enough what I wanted so now today is the day I turn to God? If all is left for such a choice we all will wait until the end isn't it so? Why then wait is my question? We don't know when we will die so from a Christian point of view you have to act before you die.

When the soul takes rebirth it is the same soul but has a different body just like changing your clothes and taking off the old cloths and putting on new cloths.
Covering yourself up does not change you. It only hides the real truth thus my conclusion is right in saying that you will remember a previous life if reincarnation exists? How come no one from the existence of the world can not remember a previous life?

If the soul can take birth once, then it can take birth many times....why not?
Cause it's not God's plan.

Reincarnation does not affect morality...........how can you conclude this?
Well this is easy. If Hitler is reborn we are in for another big surprise (killing of humans especially the Jews). How can this not affect morality?

Mankind has the Vedas to give him knowledge of spiritual living and instructions to return to him.
You know what, you may be right in saying this, but it ain't pointing you in the right direction to the real God.

You have hastingly put your comments together without any thought.
...and so did you 😉

Originally posted by Nicksten
[b]Reincarnation is offered to the soul which has not developed this love.
What kind of love is offered to a soul that has not developed yet. Define develop and love.

Christianity tells us that we only have one life to decide our eternal future in heaven and hell.
How is that possible?
Some persons take to spiritual life later in life, so for t ...[text shortened]... ou have hastingly put your comments together without any thought.
...and so did you 😉[/b]

That last sentence, putting stuff together without thought, the problem with Dasa is he has no thoughts, only rote memorization of words which will not get him or anyone else on the planet closer to any kind of god.

It'a all repetitive dogma, the really dumb idea mankind has been here for billions of years as a genetic cripple is simply the greatest lie since the claim Jesus came from a virgin or that he rose from the dead three days after he was offed.

It really strains incredulity to think anyone could put credence in any of the above ideas.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That last sentence, putting stuff together without thought, the problem with Dasa is he has no thoughts, only rote memorization of words which will not get him or anyone else on the planet closer to any kind of god.

It'a all repetitive dogma, the really dumb idea mankind has been here for billions of years as a genetic cripple is simply the greatest lie ...[text shortened]...

It really strains incredulity to think anyone could put credence in any of the above ideas.

Your entire perception of existence for this cosmos extends from one ear to the next ear and that's a whopping 230 mm and with this massive personal perception you are endowed with.....you must certainly be aware of all that is.


Symptoms of Kali-yuga: "O learned one in the age of Kali, men have but short lives. They are quarrelsome, lazy, misguided, unlucky and above all, always disturbed." (SB 1.1.10)

The four yugas are known as a divya-yuga, or maha-yuga. One divya-yuga is 12,000 years of the demigods (4,320,000 human years). One thousand divya-yugas equals one day of Brahma (4,320,000,000 human years).

In each Brahma's day there are fourteen Manus (patriarchs of mankind). Each Manu enjoys a life of seventy-one divya-yugas or 852,000 years of the demigods (306,720,000 human years). After the dissolution of every Manu a new Manu comes. With the change of Manu the universal management also changes. Each manvantara is preceded and followed by the yuga-sandhya in length of one Satya-yuga. The yuga-sandhyas are periods of partial devastation and creation.

Brahma's life consists of 36,000 days and nights (of the same length), or 311,040,000,000,000 human years.

We live in Kali-yuga of the 28th divya-yuga of the 7th Manu of the 12th kalpa (called Sveta-Varaha) (SB 2.10.46p., Skanda P. 2.39-42), in the 51th year of Brahma. The beginning of this kalpa was 2.3 billion years ago (453 mahayugas back).

Cut and paste from the Veda.

that's an awful lot of years.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
that's an awful lot of years.

Your perception of time is controlled by human relativity.

A demigod may live for hundreds of thousands of years.

Humans live for eighty years.

Some insects live for 12 hours................................they are born at night, have off spring, dwindle and die by sunrise.

Originally posted by Dasa
Your perception of time is controlled by human relativity.

A demigod may live for hundreds of thousands of years.

Humans live for eighty years.

Some insects live for 12 hours................................they are born at night, have off spring, dwindle and die by sunrise.

Ok so he lived for 311,040 billion years...

The universe is about 13 billion years old...

So what was he doing for the first 311,027 Billion years of his life?

Why did he come into being 311 trillion years ago?

What was there before him?

If you have a problem with complexity springing up from random-ness, then
how do you explain the sudden spontaneous creation of an incredibly complex
super-being who then creates all the other complexity?



I think you have a trouble with numbers, your claims that we hadn't explored
enough of the planet to find the fossil evidence that would back up your claim
was accompanied by the suggestion that we had only explored about 26 cubic nano
meters of the earth's crust....

Originally posted by googlefudge
Ok so he lived for 311,040 billion years...

The universe is about 13 billion years old...

So what was he doing for the first 311,027 Billion years of his life?

Why did he come into being 311 trillion years ago?

What was there before him?

If you have a problem with complexity springing up from random-ness, then
how do you explain the sudde ...[text shortened]... the suggestion that we had only explored about 26 cubic nano
meters of the earth's crust....

The universe is not 13 billion yrs old.

Lord Brahma is half way through his life.

Lord Brahma did not spontaneously appear from thin air.

There is a different Lord Brahma in every universe.

There are unlimited universes.

Although I could discuss this subject in great detail I will not explain the creation of the universes or the life of Lord Brahma because you are only digging around in a disingenuous manner to try and find fault so I will not waste my time.

But instead understand first your spiritual nature (your soul) and also the importance of not killing the lower creatures.

This information about creation and the universe is all there in the Vedas but first things first because we can discuss that in great detail after you have understood first that you are a spiritual being and that the body you are in is not the true self.

Originally posted by Dasa
The universe is not 13 billion yrs old.

Lord Brahma is half way through his life.

Lord Brahma did not spontaneously appear from thin air.

There is a different Lord Brahma in every universe.

There are unlimited universes.

Although I could discuss this subject in great detail I will not explain the creation of the universes or the life of Lord Brah ...[text shortened]... derstood first that you are a spiritual being and that the body you are in is not the true self.

My issue with this is that you have no evidence for any of what you just said.

You say the universe is not around 13 billion years old.

The science for this is pretty clear.

The first and easiest evidence for this age is in galaxy motion.

The outside the local cluster, the further away a galaxy is the faster away from
us it is moving.

The speed is proportional to distance, and thus you can extrapolate backwards
in time to see that in the past they would all be closer together, and if you go
far enough back they would all be in the same place (ie the big bang).

The distance back in time you need to go is about 13.2 billion years.

There is more than this, but the point is that there is a lot of research that has
been done looking into this and lots of evidence built up from that research and
you dismiss it as wrong because some spiritual text written by humans long before
the invention of modern astronomy says so?


You also talk about soul and spirit, of which their is no evidence, I certainly don't
have one. And this body is very much me.

Also what has killing of lower life forms got to do with the age of the universe and
how it was created?


I want verifiable and repeatable evidence before I believe something.

Books written by people don't, in of themselves, count as evidence.
People can be wrong, and thus so can their books.
Especially if the people concerned lived centuries before the advent of modern science.



Also I have to ask, what use are your beliefs?

They don't help cure cancer,
They won't help solve the problem of man made climate change,
They don't allow the development of transistors and computers,
They don't help solve the problems of growing food in countries racked with drought.....

Science can solve the above and more,

science is useful,

what's your belief for?

If it's to save a 'soul' that you have no evidence for, and is in fact part of your belief, and to
save the said soul, you have to give up all, or at least crucial parts of, science and reason...

Then I chose science every time.

Science is the only thing that can help save the People of this planet from whatever natural
or otherwise disaster the universe throws at us next.
And ensure the long term survival of the species by allowing us to expand into space.

I have evidence that People exist, and that, on the whole, they're worth saving.
And huge evidence that science works....

Given that for saving actual people, as opposed to mythical souls, religion is utterly useless...

How can you morally chose anything else (but science)?

Originally posted by googlefudge
My issue with this is that you have no evidence for any of what you just said.

You say the universe is not around 13 billion years old.

The science for this is pretty clear.

The first and easiest evidence for this age is in galaxy motion.

The outside the local cluster, the further away a galaxy is the faster away from
us it is moving.

Th ...[text shortened]... igion is utterly useless...

How can you morally chose anything else (but science)?

Cancer is not the problem.

It is ignorance that is the problem.

And that ignorance is telling you that this cosmos and everything in it spontaneously appeared from zero and without intelligent direction produced all manner of complex arrangements.

When you become honest you may discuss and not before.