Originally posted by Dasa
Cancer is not the problem.

It is ignorance that is the problem.

And that ignorance is telling you that this cosmos and everything in it spontaneously appeared from zero and without intelligent direction produced all manner of complex arrangements.

When you become honest you may discuss and not before.

Cancer isn't a problem?
Try telling that to someone who has it, or knows someone who has it.

And my 'ignorance' is not telling me everything 'appeared from zero'
My view, and sciences view, on the big bang is very complicated.

The short and totaly incomplete answer is that it is currently
(and possibly will always be) impossible to see past the big bang,
further back in time.

I don't actually believe in singularities, very few actual cosmologists do.

The trouble is we don't currently have a theory that deals with the conditions
found at the beginning of the visible universe or the centre of a black hole.

Which is why lots of work is being done to recreate some of these conditions in
miniature to get some data that can be used to create a working theory that
covers such conditions. (LHC for example)

However the event that created the visible universe happened about 13.2 billion
years ago, which we can be confident about because we do have really accurate
models of how the universe works from just after the big bang to now.

Models that have been tested to incredible levels of accuracy.

We know that in the end they will be proven incomplete (as Newtons gravity
was supplanted by GR) as we know they have flaws but with all the effort and
equipment we have we have yet to find where they are wrong.



none of which, answers the questions I raised in my last post.

Given sciences record of actually solving problems. and producing accurate testable
models of the world that help us understand it and us, and use that knowledge.

And religions total lack of ability to do the same.

How given all the problems (like cancer) that need solving, in all consciousness can
you chose religion over science?

IE you want to sell me (or any one else) on your religion.
and part of the price is to give up essential parts of science and reason.

What does your religion (or any religion) actually do for me that makes it worth
giving up science?

Even if it means an eternity in hell (or whatever the consequences of non belief are in
your particular religion) isn't the morally superior position to use science to help people
and be damned, than to save your own soul, and leave the world to suffer because of it?

And what kind of deity do you worship, if they require you to give up something that is
hugely beneficial simply to stroke their own ego?

I leave this open for any of you to try to answer.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Cancer isn't a problem?
Try telling that to someone who has it, or knows someone who has it.

cancer is primarily an environmental disease. while heredity helps, usual causes are attributed to bad habits or exposure to a toxic environment.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Cancer isn't a problem?
Try telling that to someone who has it, or knows someone who has it.

And my 'ignorance' is not telling me everything 'appeared from zero'
My view, and sciences view, on the big bang is very complicated.

The short and totaly incomplete answer is that it is currently
(and possibly will always be) impossible to see past th al simply to stroke their own ego?

I leave this open for any of you to try to answer.

Cancer is not the problem- never was and never will be because everybody dies.

The real problems of life are birth, death, disease and old age.

Science cannot do anything about these 4 problems.

True religion can solve these problems.

How?

Because when you follow true religion taught in the Veda- you will never have to return to this world of suffering and take birth again and suffer disease, old age and death..............and stress and anxiety and war and crime and poverty and corruption etc..

Christianity, Islam and Judaism are not true religion and cannot solve any problems either.

True religion is one.

True religion is described in the eternal teachings of the Vedas.

Most persons on earth are not interested in true religion.

Why?

Because cheating science has deceived everyone in making atheism attractive by falsely claiming everything came from a big explosion and then dead matter turned into living things including us.

Googlefudge have you ever heard of anything as absurd and dishonest as that in your entire life. (rhetorical Q )

Originally posted by Dasa
Cancer is not the problem- never was and never will be because everybody dies.

The real problems of life are birth, death, disease and old age.

cancer is a disease. by your own argument, it's a problem.

Science cannot do anything about these 4 problems.

yes it can. there has already been much progress on these problems. 100% more progress in fact than any solution offered by "true" religions.

True religion can solve these problems.

"true" religion has never been a solution to anything. they offer are empty promises. some few though offer a decent value system...if you use the appropriate filters to siphon off the crap that is.

while "true" religion claims it has all the answers, science is working on coming up with the actual answers. the solution to the above problems are social evolution. it requires awareness and education, maintaining a clean environment and healthy habits. it would require giving up capitalist/greed based tendencies, a change in our value system which i'm sad to report, is something for the far future.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit

Originally posted by Dasa
Cancer is not the problem- never was and never will be because everybody dies.

The real problems of life are birth, death, disease and old age.

cancer is a disease. by your own argument, it's a problem.

Science cannot do anything about these 4 problems.

yes it can. there has a , a change in our value system which i'm sad to report, is something for the far future.

You have not experienced true religion.

You have only experienced false religion.

False religion can do nothing to solve the real problems and in fact false religion increases the problems.

False science increases the problems also.

False science directs people away from true religion into atheism.

Atheism and false religion (Christianity Islam Judaism) are responsible for all the war, crime, corruption and ignorance in this world.

False science gives false hope to people and then the people do not engage in true spiritual living but engage in mundane material living which causes them to suffer.

Every living being is destined to grow old get diseased and die and with this comes suffering.

Science cannot prevent this (science never will prevent this and they are dishonest telling us they can.)

As I have said .....to stop taking repeated birth and death in this temporary world of suffering one has to take to true religion (the Vedas and its teachings) and then they never take birth again in this world of suffering only to get diseased and grow old again and again.

Science cannot offer this.

Cancer is not the problem because when the person is cured from cancer they will live a bit longer and then die anyway and then take birth again in this world of suffering and do it all over again.

Birth and death, birth and death, birth and death *(these are the real problems)

Originally posted by Dasa
Your entire perception of existence for this cosmos extends from one ear to the next ear and that's a whopping 230 mm and with this massive personal perception you are endowed with.....you must certainly be aware of all that is.


Symptoms of Kali-yuga: "O learned one in the age of Kali, men have but short lives. They are quarrelsome, lazy, misguided, unluck ...[text shortened]... this kalpa was 2.3 billion years ago (453 mahayugas back).

Cut and paste from the Veda.

There are words that I can not even pronounce in this comment - heck - it's is the first time ever I read such words.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That last sentence, putting stuff together without thought, the problem with Dasa is he has no thoughts, only rote memorization of words which will not get him or anyone else on the planet closer to any kind of god.

It'a all repetitive dogma, the really dumb idea mankind has been here for billions of years as a genetic cripple is simply the greatest lie ...[text shortened]...

It really strains incredulity to think anyone could put credence in any of the above ideas.

From a lot of people yes - ideas, but from others - faith.

Originally posted by Dasa
Your perception of time is controlled by human relativity.

A demigod may live for hundreds of thousands of years.

Humans live for eighty years.

Some insects live for 12 hours................................they are born at night, have off spring, dwindle and die by sunrise.

a demi what? What is this/it?

Originally posted by Dasa
Cancer is not the problem- never was and never will be because everybody dies.

The real problems of life are birth, death, disease and old age.

Science cannot do anything about these 4 problems.

True religion can solve these problems.

How?

Because when you follow true religion taught in the Veda- you will never have to return to this world of suf ...[text shortened]... ou ever heard of anything as absurd and dishonest as that in your entire life. (rhetorical Q )

The real problems of life are birth, death, disease and old age.

Forgive me but I don't see the problems of life in:
1. Birth - cause how the heck is this a problem?
2. Old Age - cause if you do get to live 80+ years you were blessed.

Science is creating and solving problems. Both religion and science could help with diseases such as cancer. The power is in the mind, together with religion is extremely powerful and can work wonders.

Trust in God and God alone and all will be well - then all of these so called problems are just part of life which we CAN get over.

Originally posted by Dasa
You have not experienced true religion.

You have only experienced false religion.

False religion can do nothing to solve the real problems and in fact false religion increases the problems.

False science increases the problems also.

False science directs people away from true religion into atheism.

Atheism and false religion (Christianity Islam J ...[text shortened]... ver again.

Birth and death, birth and death, birth and death *(these are the real problems)

False religion can do nothing to solve the real problems and in fact false religion increases the problems.
I agree.

False science increases the problems also.
Always.

False science directs people away from true religion into atheism.
Or to man created religions like the Vedas.

Atheism and false religion (Christianity Islam Judaism) are responsible for all the war, crime, corruption and ignorance in this world.
Where is the Vedas religion in here? What has the Vedas religion done better? To try and make people belief (brainwash) they can be born again after death? This is false and is categorized in the same section as false science to me cause there is no difference.

Every living being is destined to grow old get diseased and die and with this comes suffering.
Nope, not always to get diseased. How can you believe in your religion that you will suffer? If you have been reincarnated a couple of times this means you suffer each and everytime. Why not duck it?

Originally posted by Nicksten
a demi what? What is this/it?

Okay, I have read what a demigod is - LOL what a bunch of nonsense!

To Dasa. How can you belief in God and in demigods. How can one grow in to be becoming a god? If this is the case, everyone will always go for the "top of the food chain" or having the most power kinda thing going on. There is no logic nor truth in any of this.

Another thing, why would your god let you keep on dying and getting reborn? Why not just live it once and forever? This is false teachings and you can not see pass these lies as you have been brainwashed to belief these things.

Dasa, turn you eyes to God, the real God of Christianity and your mind and heart will open. Belief that Jesus Christ is the true Son of God and you will have eternal life, with God, in Heaven.

Originally posted by Nicksten
Okay, I have read what a demigod is - LOL what a bunch of nonsense!

To Dasa. How can you belief in God and in demigods. How can one grow in to be becoming a god? If this is the case, everyone will always go for the "top of the food chain" or having the most power kinda thing going on. There is no logic nor truth in any of this.

Another thing, why wou ...[text shortened]... that Jesus Christ is the true Son of God and you will have eternal life, with God, in Heaven.

You don't live once and die once because when you die you must be qualified to return home back to Godhead.

You become qualified by actually having pure love for God.

Not wishy washy Christian love which is not love at all but is just sentiments and emotions much like when a young girl has a crush on the latest pop idol........this is not love.

The Bible is not the authority....it never was and never will be because it has been fabricated by unqualified speculators who had no knowledge of spirituality or religion or God.

The Bible is a religion invented by the animal killers for the animal killers.

Following the Bible will actually have the person go backwards in their spiritual life because it teaches falsity and error..

You cannot google everything to find true knowledge of the Veda.

On-line information on the Veda is infiltrated with speculation and error.

Originally posted by Dasa
You have not experienced true religion.

You have only experienced false religion.

you are quiet correct. i haven't experienced true religion. it doesn't exist in my perspective.

nor have i observed anything resembling a "true" religion appear anywhere in this world. i have however, observed many who believe they are adherents of the "true" religion. such are a nickle a gross.

False religion can do nothing to solve the real problems and in fact false religion increases the problems.

False science increases the problems also.

also quiet true. you're pretty good at this.

False science directs people away from true religion into atheism.

false science can't direct anyone away from something that doesn't exist. true science can do this.

Atheism and false religion (Christianity Islam Judaism) are responsible for all the war, crime, corruption and ignorance in this world.

absurd. people are responsible for war, crime, corruption and ignorance in this world and any other. ideology is a function of civilization.

False science gives false hope to people and then the people do not engage in true spiritual living but engage in mundane material living which causes them to suffer.

indeed, all religions also do this. true spiritual living can only be reached in the absence of religion. you may begin this journey by first banishing all your beliefs.

Every living being is destined to grow old get diseased and die and with this comes suffering.

Science cannot prevent this (science never will prevent this and they are dishonest telling us they can.)

you can't predict what science will discover in the future. it may discover a method to banish disease and aging in the future. while suffering does come from these things, most suffering comes from fellow humans. i haven't observed a single religion that can alleviate such suffering.

As I have said .....to stop taking repeated birth and death in this temporary world of suffering one has to take to true religion (the Vedas and its teachings) and then they never take birth again in this world of suffering only to get diseased and grow old again and again.

if such a cycle does exist (very doubtful), what makes you believe the vedas can free you from it?

Science cannot offer this.

Cancer is not the problem because when the person is cured from cancer they will live a bit longer and then die anyway and then take birth again in this world of suffering and do it all over again.

Birth and death, birth and death, birth and death *(these are the real problems)[/b]

you have not proven that the vedas can offer this, or even that the problem exists at all outside of your imagination.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit

Originally posted by Dasa
You have not experienced true religion.

You have only experienced false religion.

you are quiet correct. i haven't experienced true religion. it doesn't exist in my perspective.

nor have i observed anything resembling a "true" religion appear anywhere in this world. i have however, observed ma ...[text shortened]... s can offer this, or even that the problem exists at all outside of your imagination.

Very good there. Keep up the good work. Someone may get through
to him yet, even if it is an atheist.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit

Originally posted by Dasa
You have not experienced true religion.

You have only experienced false religion.

you are quiet correct. i haven't experienced true religion. it doesn't exist in my perspective.

nor have i observed anything resembling a "true" religion appear anywhere in this world. i have however, observed ma ...[text shortened]... s can offer this, or even that the problem exists at all outside of your imagination.

You must embrace honesty to have this discussion.

People are responsible because they are following false religion and false science.

Their false religion and false science is responsible for misleading them into atheism and falsity.

If they where honest enough to determine what is what.......... then they would conclude the falsity of the religion they follow and the science they follow.

But they are not honest with themselves and embrace cheating science and cheating religion.

How could an honest person conclude that killing animals is acceptable and that the material body is functioning under its own volition without any intelligent cause for its complex existence.

How can anyone actually except that God actually suffers on a cross.

What sought of God suffers.

What sought of science teaches that all that exist has come about by random chance.......this absurd and dishonest and you know this.

There is only one source of spiritual knowledge that is true and without error and it is presented by the Vedas.

The Vedas have been with mankind from the beginning of the creation of the cosmos and have not come from mundane persons but have been presented by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Its all there presented in the Vedas but insincere persons only care for cheating science and cheating religion because they are rascals.