1. Standard memberRagnorak
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    08 Dec '05 19:41
    Any of our resident christians believe in the rapture index? Would you care to enlighten us as to why the rapture index isn't the height of insanity?

    Does the rapture index have much say in the running of the country under w. bush? Reagan's Minister for the Interior has been quoted as saying "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back". Would the fact that rapture index believers think that the degradation of the environment will accelerate the return of Jesus have anything to do with the u.s. being the biggest polluter in the world?

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0211-22.htm

    Cheers,

    D
  2. Not Kansas
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    08 Dec '05 20:27
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Any of our resident christians believe in the rapture index? Would you care to enlighten us as to why the rapture index isn't the height of insanity?

    Does the rapture index have much say in the running of the country under w. bush? Reagan's Minister for the Interior has been quoted as saying "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back". ...[text shortened]... iggest polluter in the world?

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0211-22.htm

    Cheers,

    D
    Jesus ...

    *shakes* head
  3. Standard memberRagnorak
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    09 Dec '05 09:53
    So none of the christians here have read the Terry James american bestselling books, and would like to post their thoughts on the matter?

    D
  4. Joined
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    09 Dec '05 11:061 edit
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Any of our resident christians believe in the rapture index? Would you care to enlighten us as to why the rapture index isn't the height of insanity?

    Does the rapture index have much say in the running of the country under w. bush? Reagan's Minister for the Interior has been quoted as saying "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back". ...[text shortened]... iggest polluter in the world?

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0211-22.htm

    Cheers,

    D
    Just a point of clarification:

    Watt (Reagan's guy) was reported as saying in public testimony: "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back." This quotation was used by Bill Moyers in a newspaper column. Due to the popularity of Moyers' article, it is now widely believed that Watt actually said this in public testimony. However, the quote originated on page 229 of a book by Austin Miles, "Setting the Captives Free" (Prometheus Books, 1990)). Watt denied he ever said those words. Watt subsequently demanded, and received, a public apology from Moyers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Watt

    I just looked at the rapture site and all I can say is, if god really does exist, please help these people.
  5. Not Kansas
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    09 Dec '05 11:11
    Originally posted by Starrman
    Just a point of clarification:

    Watt (Reagan's guy) was reported as saying in public testimony: "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back." This quotation was used by Bill Moyers in a newspaper column. Due to the popularity of Moyers' article, it is now widely believed that Watt actually said this in public testimony. However, the quote or ...[text shortened]... ed at the rapture site and all I can say is, if god really does exist, please help these people.
    "That is the delicate balance the Secretary of the Interior must have: to be steward for the natural resources for this generation as well as future generations. I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns; whatever it is we have to manage with a skill to leave the resources needed for future generations." -- James G. Watt, testimony before the House Interior Committee, February 1981

    From the wiki article.
  6. Halifax, NS
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    09 Dec '05 11:23
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Any of our resident christians believe in the rapture index? Would you care to enlighten us as to why the rapture index isn't the height of insanity?
    Well, I would definitely classify myselt as a Christian. Many of you would likely classify me as a fundamental(ist) Christian.

    I believe there will be a rapture of the church. Christ will come back at some point and take the church with Him.

    But the Bible clearly says it will be like a thief in the night, that no man knows when that will be. So I've never understood the Christians who try to determine when it will be.

    Furthermore, the book of I Thessalonians (or was it II Thessalonians?) was written by Paul primarily because the people there were waiting for the kingdom to come. They were quitting their jobs and sitting back, preparing for the kingdom. Paul wrote to tell them this was not the way to do things.

    It seems, if there is any validity to this article (I haven't heard of the rapture index before) then these people are pretty much advocating the same thing the Thessalonians were doing.

    The fact of the matter is, I can't think of a time in history when there hasn't been warfare. Disease has always been an issue. Probably during the black plague there were people thinking the end times were near. Probably also during WWI and WWII.

    The Bible basically says to be ready for it, since it could come at any time, but not to be living dependent on its imminency.
  7. Standard memberRagnorak
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    09 Dec '05 16:352 edits
    Originally posted by joelek
    Well, I would definitely classify myselt as a Christian. Many of you would likely classify me as a fundamental(ist) Christian.

    I believe there will be a rapture of the church. Christ will come back at some point and take the church with Him.

    But the Bible clearly says it will be like a thief in the night, that no man knows when that will be. So I've ...[text shortened]... ready for it, since it could come at any time, but not to be living dependent on its imminency.
    Sorry, my scripture knowledge is very weak. Where did Paul write that the EU was the "Beast Government" and that the search for a new EU president is a sign of the coming of the end days?

    Thanks for your serious reply, and sorry for my seemingly sarcastic response, but I just can't get my head around the idea that war/famine/disease/environmental degradation and plagues can be seen as a good thing because it means a return to the coming of christ.

    D

    [EDIT] Sorry, just noticed that you said that you had no prior knowledge of the rapture index. Anybody else have any ideas/thoughts on this?
  8. Hmmm . . .
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    09 Dec '05 16:38
    Originally posted by joelek
    Well, I would definitely classify myselt as a Christian. Many of you would likely classify me as a fundamental(ist) Christian.

    I believe there will be a rapture of the church. Christ will come back at some point and take the church with Him.

    But the Bible clearly says it will be like a thief in the night, that no man knows when that will be. So I've ...[text shortened]... ready for it, since it could come at any time, but not to be living dependent on its imminency.
    Similarly, the prophet Amos, to those “buying the poor for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals,” while practicing religious ritual in hope for the arrival of “the day of YHVH”:

    Amos 5:18 Alas for you who desire the day of YHVH! Why do you want the day of YHVH? It is darkness, not light;
    19 as if someone fled from a lion, and was met by a bear; or went into the house and rested a hand against the wall, and was bitten by a snake.
    20 Is not the day of YHVH darkness, not light, and gloom with no brightness in it?
    21 I hate, I despise your festivals, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies.
    22 Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them; and the offerings of well-being of your fatted animals I will not look upon.
    23 Take away from me the noise of your songs; I will not listen to the melody of your harps.
    24 But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.


    The phrase “the Day of the LORD” does not occur in the Hebrew Scriptures until the later prophets. Chronologically, Amos appears to be the first of these, around 760 B.C.E. Chaim Potok’s commentary on the above verses from Amos is: “To the vulgar popular belief that there will come a Day of the Lord when Israel will rule supreme and untroubled, the prophet responds with bitter sarcasm.”
  9. Standard memberRagnorak
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    09 Dec '05 16:42
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Similarly, the prophet Amos, to those “buying the poor for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals,” while practicing religious ritual in hope for the arrival of “the day of YHVH”:

    [i]Amos 5:18 Alas for you who desire the day of YHVH! Why do you want the day of YHVH? It is darkness, not light;
    19 as if someone fled from a lion, and was met by a bear ...[text shortened]... he Lord when Israel will rule supreme and untroubled, the prophet responds with bitter sarcasm.”
    YHVH?

    D
  10. Territories Unknown
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    09 Dec '05 16:51
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    YHVH?

    D
    Acronym for the Name of God, so as to avoid familiarity.
  11. Territories Unknown
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    09 Dec '05 16:59
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Anybody else have any ideas/thoughts on this?
    If the choice is between disbelief that leads to hell, and belief that leads to heaven but makes for a miserable existence throughout the seventy-plus years a person is here on earth, the latter makes more sense.
    Are people sometimes whack? Clearly.
    However, one doesn't give up on integrity simply because so many others live lies.
    It would be fruitless to attempt to plumb the depths of the psychological hiccups these people are currently convulsed by. Suffice to recognize their errors and do everything possible to gingerly step over the same.
  12. Hmmm . . .
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    09 Dec '05 17:02
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Acronym for the Name of God, so as to avoid familiarity.
    Yep. Liturgically, Jews substitute Adonai--sir, mister, lord (I believe that it becomes el Senor in Spanish Bibles). Non-liturgically, they often use Hashem, literally "the name," or some other phrase.

    Also, although scholars generally believe that the name was pronounced Yahweh (or Yahveh), no one really knows for sure.
  13. Territories Unknown
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    09 Dec '05 17:05
    Originally posted by vistesd
    no one really knows for sure.
    No one?
  14. Hmmm . . .
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    09 Dec '05 17:35
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    No one?
    LOL! Okay. Well, I don’t know everyone!

    Some claim (rabbi Lawrence Kushner, for example) that it was from the beginning an unpronounceable name, so that even the accepted pronunciation was simply a convention. That argument rests on the fact that the letters of YHVH are all consonants, and that ancient Hebrew had no vowels. To complicate the matter further, however, the Hebrew letters yod, hey and vav could sometimes be used as vowels—but, in ancient Hebrew, that too was by convention, and the reader had to just know how to do it. So, technically, YHVH could be all consonants (for purposes of pronunciation), all vowels, or some combination thereof!

    Now there might be, say, some mystical Hasidic Rebbe somewhere who really does know—but I don’t think he’s telling…

    EDIT: I just realized that you might've been referring to God knowing... 🙂
  15. Territories Unknown
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    09 Dec '05 17:47
    Originally posted by vistesd

    EDIT: I just realized that you might've been referring to God knowing... 🙂
    That I might have been!
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