1. Joined
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    05 Dec '05 20:48
    What does RBHILL mean when he says "You are not saved so you don't understand"?

    There was a time in my life when I went to a Pentecostal Church and could be considered "born again". Granted, I was very young (13 or 14) but at the time I didn't feel like I had supernatural powers of understanding, nor did I feel that I knew some secret that others did not.

    If Christ's message and love cannot be understood without first committing to his service then how does he win any souls and how can he claim that he loves us all equally?
  2. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 20:51
    Originally posted by darvlay
    What does RBHILL mean when he says "You are not saved so you don't understand"?

    There was a time in my life when I went to a Pentecostal Church and could be considered "born again". Granted, I was very young (13 or 14) but at the time I didn't feel like I had supernatural powers of understanding, nor did I feel that I knew some secret that others d ...[text shortened]... to his service then how does he win any souls and how can he claim that he loves us all equally?
    His love can be understood. His message--if you're referring to the Bible--cannot be understood until you want to understand it and this through requesting the aid of His Spirit. Just like any other Person, God wants you to desire to know Him before He tells you about Himself.
  3. Standard memberRBHILL
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    05 Dec '05 20:541 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    His love can be understood. His message--if you're referring to the Bible--cannot be understood until you want to understand it and this through requesting the aid of His Spirit. Just like any other Person, God wants you to desire to know Him before He tells you about Himself.
    I see that you understand me. And I and therefore I know that you know God.

    And Praise God that he lets you know himself 😀
  4. Standard memberRBHILL
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    05 Dec '05 20:561 edit
    Originally posted by darvlay

    If Christ's message and love cannot be understood without first committing to his service then how does he win any souls and how can he claim that he loves us all equally?
    With God all things are possible.
  5. Territories Unknown
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    05 Dec '05 20:56
    Originally posted by darvlay

    If Christ's message and love cannot be understood without first committing to his service then how does he win any souls and how can he claim that he loves us all equally?
    Confusion exists where ignorance reigns.
    Unmeritorious faith is the issue, not works, as it pertains to salvation. Service, which could be executed by believer or un-believer, cannot be the determining factor for salvation, otherwise, man could boast.
    He (God) can claim His love for all mankind, in that Christ's work on the cross was sufficient for all mankind.
    Many are called, few are chosen...
  6. Joined
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    05 Dec '05 20:59
    Originally posted by Darfius
    His message--if you're referring to the Bible--cannot be understood until you want to understand it and this through requesting the aid of His Spirit.
    What about listening to a pastor or preacher discuss the bible during a Sunday sermon? Can you properly understand his/her message and teaching on scripture without spiritual aid?
  7. Standard memberRBHILL
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    05 Dec '05 21:02
    Originally posted by darvlay
    What about listening to a pastor or preacher discuss the bible during a Sunday sermon? Can you properly understand his/her message and teaching on scripture without spiritual aid?
    You need the Spirit to understand.

    Go in spirit not in flesh.

    flesh means what the human mind thinks and spirit is doing what the word of God says.
  8. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 21:03
    Originally posted by darvlay
    What about listening to a pastor or preacher discuss the bible during a Sunday sermon? Can you properly understand his/her message and teaching on scripture without spiritual aid?
    I think that if you are listening to a pastor, that displays an interest in learning about God. But let me answer your question with a question.

    If I want to know why Sally wrote a particular something in her journal, would I get the best answer from Sally or her friends?
  9. Joined
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    05 Dec '05 21:141 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    If I want to know why Sally wrote a particular something in her journal, would I get the best answer from Sally or her friends?
    I don't think this is a fair analogy. Sally's journal is meant to be read and understood by Sally alone. The Bible is meant to be read and understood by all humanity. However you (and RB) are stating that the Bible can only really be understood by those who seek assistance from the Holy Spirit in doing so. This begs the question... Why? Why has God made his teachings only discernable to those who have been saved and not to those whose souls depend on it?

    Also, can you (or anyone else) give us an example from their daily lives in which the Holy Spirit helped "translate" a portion of the Bible for you?
  10. Standard memberHalitose
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    05 Dec '05 21:151 edit
    Originally posted by David C
    F*ck you, Jew, that's how.
    Are you ever not asinine around the Christian religion?

    Or is this a redundant example of argumentum ad megasmugness?
  11. Joined
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    05 Dec '05 21:17
    Originally posted by Darfius
    I think that if you are listening to a pastor, that displays an interest in learning about God.
    Not necessarily. I've been dragged to church several times in which I listened to a Pastor simply because there's nothing else to do. 🙂
  12. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 21:21
    Originally posted by darvlay
    I don't think this is a fair analogy. Sally's journal is meant to be read and understood by Sally alone. The Bible is meant to be read and understood by all humanity. However you (and RB) are stating that the Bible can only really be understood by those who seek assistance from the Holy Spirit in doing so. This begs the question... Why? Why has ...[text shortened]... their daily lives in which the Holy Spirit helped "translate" a portion of the Bible for you?
    Where does the Bible say it is meant to be read and understood by all humanity?

    The entire NT was written to people who already believed. The OT takes for granted that God exists.

    I answered your question about why God made His teachings discernable to those who have been saved. Because they are the only ones who care about His teachings! The point of the Bible is speak about man's relationship to man, man's relationship to God and how God has provided a way to fix both through the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Those who don't care about either will not care about what is in the Bible, so why should God make it intelligible to them? Would seem like a waste of time.

    The Holy Spirit has never given me a verbatim translation, but He has guided me into situations and to people who were capable of giving me great insight into certain passages. I myself have gotten great insight many nights while reading Scripture after diligent prayer for such an end before reading.
  13. Donationkirksey957
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    05 Dec '05 21:43
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    I see that you understand me. And I and therefore I know that you know God.

    And Praise God that he lets you know himself 😀
    RB, this is almost verbatim (word for word) what Jesus said about his relationship to God. All you're missing is "your Father and I are one."
  14. Joined
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    05 Dec '05 23:11
    Originally posted by Darfius

    Where does the Bible say it is meant to be read and understood by all humanity?

    Surely the teachings of Christ and commandments from God are meant to be understood by all men and are not exclusive to those who have accepted him as their Lord and Saviour. It doesn't take a genius, or a Christian for that matter, to decipher the meaning behind the majority of Jesus's parables. To imply that a non-Christian's interpretation of scripture is automatically bunk because of their personal beliefs is ludicrous and extremely arrogant.

    The Holy Spirit has never given me a verbatim translation, but He has guided me into situations and to people who were capable of giving me great insight into certain passages. I myself have gotten great insight many nights while reading Scripture after diligent prayer for such an end before reading.

    While it's fair to say that a skeptical non-Christian may sometimes misconstrue biblical passages, I fail to see how this differs from a Christian finding guidance or developing a personal interpretation of that same scripture to fit their own life's circumstances. Is a Christian's interpretation correct by default?

    I agree that Jesus's teachings can be applied to many circumstances and situations, but is it really fair to simply shrug off a skeptic's interpretation of the Bible simply because they read and interpret exactly what they see?
  15. Standard memberDarfius
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    05 Dec '05 23:25
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Originally posted by Darfius

    [b]Where does the Bible say it is meant to be read and understood by all humanity?


    Surely the teachings of Christ and commandments from God are meant to be understood by all men and are not exclusive to those who have accepted him as their Lord and Saviour. It doesn't take a genius, or a Christian for that mat ...[text shortened]... tic's interpretation of the Bible simply because they read and interpret exactly what they see?[/b]
    Saying "surely" before repeating yourself doesn't explain to me where in the Bible your claim is supported. I have yet to meet a skeptic with a true understanding of Scripture that he did not glean from believers.

    No. Many Christians, in fact, have incorrect interpretations, but as I said, I have yet to meet a skeptic whose interpretation of a major doctrine was not gleaned from believers.
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