RedLetter Bible Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21

Originally posted by KellyJay
People tend to do strange things from time to time.

Like telling people that Jesus loves them so much he came to die to save them but if they don't believe it he will make them burn in hell for eternity?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Kelly Jay likes the phrase because it eliminates the need to choose between the two possibilities.

[b]just because of that "mysterious ways" phrase doesn't mean one is not more logical than the other. it simply means god had mysterious motives for doing something.
If Gods motives are mysterious, then you cannot claim that one is more logical than the other. Such a claim relies on God having motives that you can at least guess.[/b]

"If Gods motives are mysterious, then you cannot claim that one is more logical than the other."
that's pretentious nonsense. i proposed 2 possible courses of action (X and Y) God took. even if god's motives were mysterious for either one, one can still judge X and y and see what is more logical.

Originally posted by sonship

are you still trying to justify stoning a little girl?

I do not think the law [b]Deuteronomy 22:13-21 was unrighteous of God. I think the law was holy, just, and righteous.

I may not like everything I read about these laws. But I believe they were righteous.

If ever a man walked the earth who was qualified to point out the ...[text shortened]... How can I not simply LOVE this Person, Jesus, the Son of God - "the light of the world"?[/b]

little girls were to be stoned to death on the accusation of a man alone.


and you call it righteous?

" I may not like everything I read about these laws."
yes, it means you are a coward as well as a psychopath.


say it. say they were evil. you were created with a conscience, with reason, with free will. have the balls to call something evil, evil even if a potential supreme bully WOULD send you to hell for it. have the balls to declare, loud, that if god would ask you to stone a little girl, you would say NO

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"If Gods motives are mysterious, then you cannot claim that one is more logical than the other."
that's pretentious nonsense. i proposed 2 possible courses of action (X and Y) God took. even if god's motives were mysterious for either one, one can still judge X and y and see what is more logical.

The whole point of the phrase 'God moves in mysterious ways' is to claim that Gods motives are unknowable and that all judgements are off. You may dispute the reasonableness of the claim, but you cannot accept the claim and then demand judgement.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"If Gods motives are mysterious, then you cannot claim that one is more logical than the other."
that's pretentious nonsense. i proposed 2 possible courses of action (X and Y) God took. even if god's motives were mysterious for either one, one can still judge X and y and see what is more logical.

Well lets look at the logic I've asked you too already. What would make
anyone having sex outside of marriage bad? If you continue reading that
chapter:

Deuteronomy 22: 22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

The man if he is found out broke the marriage bond he and the woman are
put to death.

So why is it that important that the deed would call for the death of the one
who was promiscuous so that as the text says that evil must be purged?

Originally posted by twhitehead
The whole point of the phrase 'God moves in mysterious ways' is to claim that Gods motives are unknowable and that all judgements are off. You may dispute the reasonableness of the claim, but you cannot accept the claim and then demand judgement.

"The whole point of the phrase 'God moves in mysterious ways' is to claim that Gods motives are unknowable and that all judgements are off"

gods motives ARE unknowable. that doesn't mean i can't still judge his actions.

your mistake is assuming that i already accepted the course of action kelly proposes and i ask him to consider something more logical.

i didn't. i ask him to weigh 2 options and decide which is more logically consistent with what the new testament and jesus' words say.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well lets look at the logic I've asked you too already. What would make
anyone having sex outside of marriage bad? If you continue reading that
chapter:

Deuteronomy 22: 22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

The man if he is found out broke t ...[text shortened]... for the death of the one
who was promiscuous so that as the text says that evil must be purged?

yes, why would god ask for that then and not care later on?

jesus was not repulsed when the woman "of questionable morality" washed his feet. jesus saved the woman about to be stoned to death for adultery.
doesn't this prove that the laws about adultery from the OT were not given by god but were invented by men wanting to impose their morality on others?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
yes, why would god ask for that then and not care later on?

jesus was not repulsed when the woman "of questionable morality" washed his feet. jesus saved the woman about to be stoned to death for adultery.
doesn't this prove that the laws about adultery from the OT were not given by god but were invented by men wanting to impose their morality on others?

Actually a great question, but I'd still like to hear from you why God would
care about that in the first place. I will answer yours, I'd just like mine
answered if you don't mind.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
yes, why would god ask for that then and not care later on?

jesus was not repulsed when the woman "of questionable morality" washed his feet. jesus saved the woman about to be stoned to death for adultery.
doesn't this prove that the laws about adultery from the OT were not given by god but were invented by men wanting to impose their morality on others?

Personally knowing how strong lust is within man, why would man limit his
choices by making that law if it were not God?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Personally knowing how strong lust is within man, why would man limit his
choices by making that law if it were not God?

Because man also has a very strong dislike of infidelity on the part of his spouse. This can be explained by evolution - it doesn't have such an easy explanation when it comes to God.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Personally knowing how strong lust is within man, why would man limit his
choices by making that law if it were not God?

Men don't limit their choices any more than they must to get other men to limit their choices.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Personally knowing how strong lust is within man, why would man limit his
choices by making that law if it were not God?

are you asking me why man, throughout history, tried to impose his morality on others? do you think god told the popes to start crusades? do you think god told inquisitors to burn "witches", jews and heretics? do you think god told feudal lords to oppress peasants?


man is insecure. he needs confirmation that what he believes in is right so he forces his beliefs on others. and of course, sometimes there are even material benefits.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Actually a great question, but I'd still like to hear from you why God would
care about that in the first place. I will answer yours, I'd just like mine
answered if you don't mind.

i already answered that. he wouldn't care. that's why he sent jesus to make it clear how little he cares about who fornicates who

Originally posted by JS357
Men don't limit their choices any more than they must to get other men to limit their choices.

I agree so why all the limitations? It isn't like one group is going to enjoy
sleeping around while another cannot!

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
are you asking me why man, throughout history, tried to impose his morality on others? do you think god told the popes to start crusades? do you think god told inquisitors to burn "witches", jews and heretics? do you think god told feudal lords to oppress peasants?


man is insecure. he needs confirmation that what he believes in is right so he forces his beliefs on others. and of course, sometimes there are even material benefits.

I'm asking about the text you brought up, why would man write that book
that would limit his own ability to sleep with another man's wife? Why
would they put rules on marriage and keep it so pure, to the point of killing
those that didn't? Please stay on the topic you brought up!