1. Standard memberRajk999
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    20 Apr '18 22:123 edits
    Which is it? What is one supposed to do? I quote Romans1009 who stated that
    ....rajk ... may try to follow most of Christ’s commandments,
    but it’s much more important, now and for eternity,
    to have a relationship with Him.


    So the church gang Romans 1009, Second Son, Sonship, and others have all at some point promoted the idea of a relationship with Christ and that this is more important than obeying the commandments of Christ. But if one were to ask them where does the Bible speak of this relationship with Christ and how important it is, there is silence. They can produce nothing.

    Are they any Christians out there who can shed some light on this confusing matter.
    - where is the relationship explained in the bible
    - what exactly does it entail.
    - how it is more important than obeying the commandments of Christ

    Thanks.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    20 Apr '18 23:251 edit
    The relationship with Christ commences by RECEIVING Christ.

    This entails of course that:
    1) Christ is alive
    2.) Christ is available
    3.) Christ is faithful in a form in which He can be received.

    1.) Christ is alive and is with His believing disciples all the days until the consummation of the age.


    " ... And behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:19b)


    Luke ends his gospel with Christ ascending.
    Mark also ends his gospel with Christ ascended to heaven.

    The Bible is balanced in its presentation of the truth.
    Matthew and John do not close with an impression that Jesus went away anywhere. And Matthew who says of Jesus that He is "Emanuel - God with us" closes with Him being WITH US throughout the rest of the church age until it closes.

    "Go therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

    And behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:19,20)
  3. Standard membersonship
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    20 Apr '18 23:26
    Christ is also available. He is in His form as the Holy Spirit to be received like a radio antenna can receive radio signals.
    We have an "antenna" like organ called a human spirit. And the human spirit (not the soul) can touch, substantiat, and contact the Lord Jesus Christ Who is the Spirit.

    "And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." (2 Cor. 3:17)


    The human spirit can become UNITED with the Person of Jesus Christ Who is the Spirit. Then the human spirit and the Holy Spirit become ONE united and mingled spirit within a person.

    "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)


    This is a most intimate relationship. This is so close that the two are joined as "one spirit". Then Christ lives in you.

    He GIVES Himself TO you. This is what the New Testament calls "life giving Spirit" . Jesus Christ is alive and is in the form of "a life giving Spirit" to GIVE DIVINE LIFE into your being.

    "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)
  4. Standard membersonship
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    20 Apr '18 23:261 edit
    Christ is therefore RECEIVABLE. As many as receive Jesus Christ are given authority to become one in an intimate life relationship with God as one of His begotten children.

    "But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,

    Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)


    I have an intimate relationship with the living Jesus and I have eternal life.
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    21 Apr '18 01:33
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Which is it? What is one supposed to do? I quote Romans1009 who stated that
    ....rajk ... may try to follow most of Christ’s commandments,
    but it’s much more important, now and for eternity,
    to have a relationship with Him.


    So the church gang Romans 1009, Second Son, Sonship, and others have all at some point promoted the idea of a relation ...[text shortened]... y does it entail.
    - how it is more important than obeying the commandments of Christ

    Thanks.
    Re: Your thread title...

    It’s not an “either or” situation.

    One can follow (more accurately, attempt to follow) Christ’s commandments without having a relationship with Him.

    But one can’t have a relationship with Him and not follow (more accurately, seek to follow or follow in most cases) His commandments.

    What’s the difference?

    When one has a relationship with Christ, one seeks to follow His commandments out of love and gratitude.

    When one does not have a relationship with Christ, one attempts to follow His commandments out of a sense of duty or obligation.

    Which person is more likely to persevere in following Christ’s commandments during difficult times? Which person is likely to be more successful at following Christ’s commandments?

    As far as eternity goes, one obtains eternal life through belief in Christ and His Resurrection and accepting Christ a la John 3:16 and Romans 10:9. That leads to the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit and begins a believer’s walk with Christ.

    Doing good works without believing in Christ and in His Resurrection does not cause one to obtain eternal life.

    Good works and an aversion to sin follow belief in Christ and indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit. They are evidence of salvation, not a requirement of it. That’s why I said having a relationship with Christ is more important from the standpoint of eternity.

    As far as the here and now, people miss out on so much that God has to offer if they don’t have a relationship with Him, including being within His will.

    Perhaps those who claim God doesn’t have a relationship with people or who mock the idea can explain what Paul meant when he wrote this:

    “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”

    (Philippians 4:13)
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    21 Apr '18 12:012 edits
    First, there is no mention of a relationship in the bible.

    Next, all that you have described is what is called an unbalanced one-way relationship,
    in which you receive from God but you fail to give back.
    Give back ? Yes the duty of a professed follower of God and Christ is to OBEY.
    Failure to do that voids the relationship.

    The whole bible from the beginning right down to the end demonstrates this
    God had a relationship with Adam and Eve, they disobeyed , they were cast out
    God had a relationship with Abraham, he was obedient to Gods commandments, he was then blessed by God.
    Only those who keep the commandments enter the New Jerusalem.

    Same story throughtout the Bible. Jesus here describes a proper relationship:
    Jesus answered and said unto him,
    If a man love me, he will keep my words:
    and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him,
    and make our abode with him.
    (John 14:23 KJV)


    IF a man loves God/Christ
    He will obey his commandmenbts
    Then will God/Christ will abide with that man.
    That is a proper relationship.

    Failure to follow the commandments VOIDS THE RELATIONSHIP
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    21 Apr '18 12:32
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Which is it? What is one supposed to do? I quote Romans1009 who stated that
    ....rajk ... may try to follow most of Christ’s commandments,
    but it’s much more important, now and for eternity,
    to have a relationship with Him.


    So the church gang Romans 1009, Second Son, Sonship, and others have all at some point promoted the idea of a relation ...[text shortened]... y does it entail.
    - how it is more important than obeying the commandments of Christ

    Thanks.
    God has sought relationship with man from day one, I am surprised you haven't realized that until now.
    Example, in the warning against idolatry we find;

    2 Corinthians 6:16-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, “I will dwell in them and walk among them; And I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 17 “Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord. “And do not touch what is unclean; And I will welcome you. 18
    “And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,” Says the Lord Almighty.

    This scripture is about relationship. A father and child relationship is, well a relationship!
    relationship, relationship, relationship.

    I think the greatest example of God wanting a relationship with man is John 3:16

    John 3:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    Why would God do that except that he wants a relationship with us.

    As far as works, absolutely, that is a natural progression not the means to gaining relationship and acceptance, we cannot earn.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    21 Apr '18 12:431 edit
    Originally posted by @leunammi
    God has sought relationship with man from day one, I am surprised you haven't realized that until now.
    Example, in the warning against idolatry we find;

    [b]2 Corinthians 6:16-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)


    16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, “I will dwell in the ...[text shortened]... t is a natural progression not the means to gaining relationship and acceptance, we cannot earn.[/b]
    Im surprised that you did not understand what Romans1009 wrote here:

    ....rajk ... may try to follow most of Christ’s commandments,
    but it’s much more important, now and for eternity,
    to have a relationship with Him.


    A relationship is a two way street.
    Christians like yourself continue to describe
    a one way gimme gimme relationship.
    The Bible does not describe that.
    The Bible speaks of a two way relationship

    You are obedient to Gods commandmednts
    God then will be your faither
    And you his sons and daughters.

    If you are not obedient
    The RELATIONSHIP IS VOID.
    You are cast out of the presence of God

    The statements by Romans1009 shows a lack of understanding
    of what a relationship with God about.
    a relationship means obedience to the commandments of Christ
    otherwise you have no relationship.... got it ?
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    21 Apr '18 13:06
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Im surprised that you did not understand what Romans1009 wrote here:

    ....rajk ... may try to follow most of Christ’s commandments,
    but it’s much more important, now and for eternity,
    to have a relationship with Him.


    A relationship is a two way street.
    Christians like yourself continue to describe
    a one way gimme gimme relationship.
    The ...[text shortened]... ans obedience to the commandments of Christ
    otherwise you have no relationship.... got it ?
    [/b]
    I understand.
    a relationship means obedience to the commandments of Christ
    otherwise you have no relationship.... got it ?


    Modern day definition, but timeless as well. Please see the definition of relationship https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/relationship for your understanding.

    I think you misunderstand what many here are saying about relationship, obedience, works, etc. I summarize

    When anyone is in a relationship, there is some level of affection, regard, love (if you will) towards the other party and you want to do things for them, generally. When we have that relationship with God we want to do what is right, what he wants us to do and live a righteous life, do good for others, etc. It follows the relationship.

    When the relationship gets broke (we sin) we tend hide, run in the other direction. We see this in the garden, after the apple snack. Right relationship we embrace. God wants to know us, we need to know him not out of duty but love.

    As far as Romans, Sonship, Secondson and others (myself included), your disdain for them is remarkable. You are so full of yourself, it's not that you can't hear what someone is trying to communicate it's that you won't, even when scripture is used to support one's view.

    I hope you at some point can learn to listen more and condemn less, you are only hurting yourself.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    21 Apr '18 13:121 edit
    Originally posted by @leunammi
    .. As far as Romans, Sonship, Secondson and others (myself included), your disdain for them is remarkable. You are so full of yourself, it's not that you can't hear what someone is trying to communicate it's that you won't, even when scripture is used to support one's view.
    .
    I have disdain for the doctrine you people preach.
    it is contrary to the teachings of Christ.

    You are the ones that a full of yourself.
    You boast that you are saved
    You show off that you have Christ
    You gloat over some non-esistannt relationship with God
    Non existent because you preach that following commandments are not necessary

    You quote the Bible of course
    but you do not quote the parts that conflict with your doctrine.
    That is deceitful and crooked

    Do you read what I write
    Do you understand the parts of the bible that I quote
    I dont think so
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    21 Apr '18 13:22
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    I have disdain for the doctrine you people preach.
    it is contrary to the teachings of Christ.

    You are the ones that a full of yourself.
    You boast that you are saved
    You show off that you have Christ
    You gloat over some non-esistannt relationship with God
    Non existent because you preach that following commandments are not necessary

    You quote the ...[text shortened]... Do you read what I write
    Do you understand the parts of the bible that I quote
    I dont think so
    You quote the Bible of course
    but you do not quote the parts that conflict with your doctrine.
    That is deceitful and crooked


    Sounds like someone I don't know.
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    21 Apr '18 14:17
    Originally posted by @leunammi
    You quote the Bible of course
    but you do not quote the parts that conflict with your doctrine.
    That is deceitful and crooked


    Sounds like someone I don't know.
    You are deceitful and crooked.
    You are well aware of what Romans1009 means when he said this :

    ....rajk ... may try to follow most of Christ’s commandments,
    but it’s much more important, now and for eternity,
    to have a relationship with Him.


    The Bible says that the only way to have a relationship
    with God/Christ is to BE OBEDIENT TO HIS COMMANDMENTS.

    IF someone obeys God THEN there is a relationship
    IF someone disobeys God THEN there is NO relationship
  13. Standard memberRemoved
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    21 Apr '18 17:30
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Im surprised that you did not understand what Romans1009 wrote here:

    ....rajk ... may try to follow most of Christ’s commandments,
    but it’s much more important, now and for eternity,
    to have a relationship with Him.


    A relationship is a two way street.
    Christians like yourself continue to describe
    a one way gimme gimme relationship.
    The ...[text shortened]... ans obedience to the commandments of Christ
    otherwise you have no relationship.... got it ?
    [/b]
    You’re blinded by hate, rajk. You didn’t read what I wrote, rajk. People who are in a relationship with Christ and who love Him will seek to follow His commandments out of love and gratitude, not out of duty and obligation. And it’s those who are in a relationship with Christ and who love Him who will be more successful in following His commandments and who will continue to abide in Christ in difficult times.

    What is your source or motivation for abiding in Christ?
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    21 Apr '18 17:33
    How do you explain what Paul meant in Philippians 4:13, rajk?

    Is this yet another question you will ignore or dismiss with your chest-puffing hate?
  15. Standard memberapathist
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    21 Apr '18 18:30
    Christ is absent. Deal with it.
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