1. Felicific Forest
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    20 Mar '09 21:29
    VATICAN CITY, 19 MAR 2009 (VIS) - At 9 a.m. today, Solemnity of St. Joseph, patron of the universal Church and the Holy Father's own name day, Benedict XVI met with a group of representatives from the Muslim community of Cameroon, at the apostolic nunciature in Yaounde.

    In his comments the Holy Father noted how "Cameroon is home to thousands of Christians and Muslims, who often live, work and worship in the same neighbourhood".

    "I believe", he went on, "a particularly urgent task of religion today is to unveil the vast potential of human reason, which is itself God's gift and which is elevated by revelation and faith. Belief in the one God, far from stunting our capacity to understand ourselves and the world, broadens it".

    "Although [God's] infinite glory can never be directly grasped by our finite minds in this life, we nonetheless catch glimpses of it in the beauty that surrounds us. When men and women allow the magnificent order of the world and the splendour of human dignity to illumine their minds, they discover that what is 'reasonable' extends far beyond what mathematics can calculate, logic can deduce and scientific experimentation can demonstrate; it includes the goodness and innate attractiveness of upright and ethical living made known to us in the very language of creation.

    "This insight", he added, "prompts us to seek all that is right and just, to step outside the restricted sphere of our own self-interest and act for the good of others. Genuine religion thus widens the horizon of human understanding and stands at the base of any authentically human culture. It rejects all forms of violence and totalitarianism: not only on principles of faith, but also of right reason. Indeed, religion and reason mutually reinforce one another since religion is purified and structured by reason, and reason's full potential is unleashed by revelation and faith".

    Benedict XVI concluded his remarks by encouraging his Muslim hearers "to imbue society with the values that emerge from this perspective and elevate human culture, as we work together to build a civilisation of love. May the enthusiastic co-operation of Muslims, Catholics and other Christians in Cameroon be a beacon to other African nations of the enormous potential of an inter-religious commitment to peace, justice and the common good!"

    http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/vis/dinamiche/c1_en.htm
  2. Maryland
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    21 Mar '09 00:15
    The Pope and reason? You've got to be kidding. The Pope shows his lack of reason by condemning the use of condoms (especially in Africa) and thus allowing untold and unnecessary suffering. In my mind, the man is a dangerous jackass except a lot more dangerous. Instead of helping people in dire poverty, the Pope is actually making matters worse.
  3. Joined
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    19 Jun '09 21:11
    Whether I agree with everything the Pope says is debatable but it's not to call him a bad name!
  4. Joined
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    19 Jun '09 22:02
    I think reason and religion can work together that way.

    I can understand that the Pope's views on condoms can be judged unreasonable in one sense, but I think RC teaching is at least as internally consistent as most belief systems.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    19 Jun '09 22:39
    Originally posted by Lord Shark
    I think reason and religion can work together that way.

    I can understand that the Pope's views on condoms can be judged unreasonable in one sense, but I think RC teaching is at least as internally consistent as most belief systems.
    I heard the vatican has shares in condom-manufacturing business.
    If this is true ...well...it just suspends belief now doesn't it!(?)
  6. Joined
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    19 Jun '09 23:04
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I heard the vatican has shares in condom-manufacturing business.
    If this is true ...well...it just suspends belief now doesn't it!(?)

    I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it did since the world of corporate finance and investments can be quite fiddly. It doesn't negate my point though. I take it you have no actual evidence of this?
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    19 Jun '09 23:09
    Originally posted by Lord Shark
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    [b]I heard the vatican has shares in condom-manufacturing business.
    If this is true ...well...it just suspends belief now doesn't it!(?)

    I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it did since the world of corporate finance and investments can be quite fiddly. It doesn't negate my point though. I take it you have no actual evidence of this?[/b]
    no i don't(as referred to in my post)
  8. Joined
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    19 Jun '09 23:18
    Originally posted by 667joe
    The Pope and reason? You've got to be kidding. The Pope shows his lack of reason by condemning the use of condoms (especially in Africa) and thus allowing untold and unnecessary suffering. In my mind, the man is a dangerous jackass except a lot more dangerous. Instead of helping people in dire poverty, the Pope is actually making matters worse.
    More to the point, what has morality got to do with reason?
  9. Joined
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    19 Jun '09 23:191 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    no i don't(as referred to in my post)
    Your post was ambiguous.
  10. Joined
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    19 Jun '09 23:21
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    More to the point, what has morality got to do with reason?
    Quite a lot I'd say. It is necessary but not sufficient.
  11. Joined
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    20 Jun '09 00:38
    Originally posted by Lord Shark
    Quite a lot I'd say. It is necessary but not sufficient.
    Do you think it is possible for someone to be a genius, fully reasonable and possessing outstanding intellectual faculties, who is also totally amoral?
  12. Joined
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    20 Jun '09 09:36
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Do you think it is possible for someone to be a genius, fully reasonable and possessing outstanding intellectual faculties, who is also totally amoral?
    Yes.

    That follows from 'necessary but not sufficient' doesn't it?
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