I had an interesting chat with someone from Bandung, West Java, today. She is a Javanese and a Christian [not Sundanese, the dominant ethnic group in West Java] who owns a Papuan [themed] restaurant.
Bandung is mostly Muslim. Papua [in the far eastern part of the archipelago] is mostly Catholic and Protestant [although less predominantly as in the past because of domestic migration].
Pork is a popular food in Papua [as it is on the predominantly Hindu island of Bali too] and it used to be on her restaurant's menu but they stopped serving it out of 'respect' for the local Muslim majority community.
In matters such as these, surely the most important manifestation of 'respect' is exhibited through the tolerance the majority shows for the minority's religious traditions and practices?
24 Jul 19
@fmf saidAs always, respect goes both ways.
I had an interesting chat with someone from Bandung, West Java, today. She is a Javanese and a Christian [not Sundanese, the dominant ethnic group in West Java] who owns a Papuan [themed] restaurant.
Bandung is mostly Muslim. Papua [in the far eastern part of the archipelago] is mostly Catholic and Protestant [although less predominantly as in the past because of domestic mig ...[text shortened]... ited through the tolerance the majority shows for the minority's religious traditions and practices?
24 Jul 19
@fmf saidThat happens here as well. The Chinese community here loves pork but if they are operating in a predominantly Muslim village they will take it off the menu. Alcohol as well. The reason is more a business decision than respect for Muslims, in my opinion.
I had an interesting chat with someone from Bandung, West Java, today. She is a Javanese and a Christian [not Sundanese, the dominant ethnic group in West Java] who owns a Papuan [themed] restaurant.
Bandung is mostly Muslim. Papua [in the far eastern part of the archipelago] is mostly Catholic and Protestant [although less predominantly as in the past because of domestic mig ...[text shortened]... ited through the tolerance the majority shows for the minority's religious traditions and practices?
24 Jul 19
@Suzianne
i know that if you go into fast food restaurants in the united states you are in a muslim free zone as bacon is cooked on the grill for alot of the food offerings.
24 Jul 19
@mister-moggy saidAnd I am pretty sure that Muslims understand why those places are in business, and simply opt not to indulge, just like Jews. They're not insisting they "go away".
@Suzianne
i know that if you go into fast food restaurants in the united states you are in a muslim free zone as bacon is cooked on the grill for alot of the food offerings.
25 Jul 19
@suzianne saidAnd if that appeal to 'manmade' bylaws ~ which may or may not seek to regulate the issue ~ is interpreted as not 'respectful' by the community surrounding the restaurant, for religious reasons, how does the principle "respect goes both ways" work? How should the degree of 'self-censorship', so to speak, be calibrated?
They are free to conduct their business as they see fit, provided they do not run afoul of local laws.
It's not too difficult for you and I to declare/hypothesize - for example - that we would not care what the Papuan restaurant did, but in the OP's scenario, would you keep pork on the menu if you were the restauranteur?
25 Jul 19
The respect that is given to the minority is that it is legal for them to eat pork and consume alcohol.
Unless, of course, you want to imply that this is just a given. But one can argue that alcohol is clearly something that has negative repercussions, and that Muslims often argue that the prohibition that goes against pork can also be related back to issues concerning health and that it is a rational rule, right...
25 Jul 19
@philokalia saidThe OP, as the title suggests, is only interested in the aspect of religion as it pertains to multi-faith society.
But one can argue that alcohol is clearly something that has negative repercussions, and that Muslims often argue that the prohibition that goes against pork can also be related back to issues concerning health
People of any religion could argue for the prohibition of alcohol or certain foodstuffs for social or health reasons and do so without connection to their religious affiliation or beliefs. That's is beyond the scope of my OP question. Alcohol and pork are proscribed by law in Indonesia.
In the OP's scenario, would you keep pork on the menu if you were the restauranteur?
25 Jul 19
@fmf saidIf I were in a predominantly Muslim community? No, I probably would not.
And if that appeal to 'manmade' bylaws ~ which may or may not seek to regulate the issue ~ is interpreted as not 'respectful' by the community surrounding the restaurant, for religious reasons, how does the principle "respect goes both ways" work? How should the degree of 'self-censorship', so to speak, be calibrated?
It's not too difficult for you and I to declare/hypothesiz ...[text shortened]... aurant did, but in the OP's scenario, would you keep pork on the menu if you were the restauranteur?
But if pork products were a mainstay of my business, I probably would not locate it in such a community to begin with.
25 Jul 19
@fmf said[Cynical response alert]
I had an interesting chat with someone from Bandung, West Java, today. She is a Javanese and a Christian [not Sundanese, the dominant ethnic group in West Java] who owns a Papuan [themed] restaurant.
Bandung is mostly Muslim. Papua [in the far eastern part of the archipelago] is mostly Catholic and Protestant [although less predominantly as in the past because of domestic mig ...[text shortened]... ited through the tolerance the majority shows for the minority's religious traditions and practices?
You place respect in small quotations. Did this lady in your account use the term “respect” (presumably so as not to offend), or was she acting more out of commercial expediency in line with her changing demographic, or was there something more sinister, a fear of reprisals from a majority population with strong religious laws on food?
25 Jul 19
@divegeester saidWell spotted. Answer: reprisals, in the form of demonstrations or harassment by the sort of people who represent about 5% of the community that they claim to. They might turn up as a 45-year-old drooling middle manager with a few 16-18-year-olds or older unemployed men in tow, men, mind you, men and boys, all of them [see also: "organized" UK football hooligans].
You place respect in small quotations. Did this lady in your account use the term “respect” (presumably so as not to offend), or was she acting more out of commercial expediency in line with her changing demographic, or was there something more sinister, a fear of reprisals from a majority population with strong religious laws on food?
These people demanding 'respect' almost certainly did not pose a threat to life or property, not in a relatively cosmopolitan city like Bandung. If they actually harmed a local business, it would be local Muslim men who would come out of the woodwork to teach them a lesson. The 'respect', then, in this case, was perhaps more like avoidance of hassle.
As for "commercial expediency", they probably make less money now because a Papuan-themed restaurant that doesn't serve pork is a somewhat underwhelming and off-target business idea.
The same Muslim customers as went there before more or less still go there [maybe they have connections to Papua] and they still don't eat pork because, while it was their choice not to before, now it's not on the menu anymore.
Having said all this, the scenario in the OP is still fairly commonplace here, even without any threats being made.
25 Jul 19
@mister-moggy saidI spent a year working with a fairly devout Muslim and we would often eat out together [rather than in the hotel] when we were in a different city doing our thing.
i know that if you go into fast food restaurants in the united states you are in a muslim free zone as bacon is cooked on the grill for alot of the food offerings.
He would not eat Chinese food in a restaurant that served pork, not because he did not respect the right of the restaurant to sell pork dishes to Christians, Buddhists, Hindus etc.
It was because it was impossible to tell whether there was any demarcation regarding the utensils and pots and pans used to cook pork.
There were plenty of places that had pork and many more that didn't. The issue of "respect" did not force those that did offer pork to close or to alter their menus.