Originally posted by karoly aczelHi there karoly. I knew you'd jump at this one. Just kidding! 🙂
What are you getting at JW? I for one was sure that christianity was a religon. Or does this belong in posers and puzzles because it is a trick question?
I'll answer, but first I'm waiting to see how many folks will take the bait. I have a bit of time this evening, and so I'd like to get into a big fight before I go to bed. 😲
Originally posted by josephw🙂
Hi there karoly. I knew you'd jump at this one. Just kidding! 🙂
I'll answer, but first I'm waiting to see how many folks will take the bait. I have a bit of time this evening, and so I'd like to get into a big fight before I go to bed. 😲
Of course I'll jump at it.Its my nature.
I knew you were upto something...
Originally posted by karoly aczelYa. It doesn't take long to see that I have an agenda. I think that's why I get beat up so often in here.
🙂
Of course I'll jump at it.Its my nature.
I knew you were upto something...
That's what I get for being transparent. My life is an open book. I try to be honest and sincere, but there's always a price to pay.
Alright then, here it is.
I guess it all depends on how one defines religion. But instead of getting bogged down in that, let's just let it speak for itself.
Take an honest look at the worlds religions. Without exception they all teach that in order to achieve the goal established by its' precepts, one must perform rites and rituals and ceremonies. They teach that one must do all these things in order to reach whatever it is that particular religion says is the goal of the practitioner.
This is especially true of so many Christian denominations. Or maybe I should say abominations.
True Christianity is unlike all other "religions" in that, in order to obtain its' ultimate goal, which is eternal life, one must not think that one can do anything at all in order to obtain it.
Religion in its' purist form is a system of rites, rituals, and ceremonies created by man in order to establish a relationship with God.
Christianity, on the other hand, was and is a creation of Gods'. And the thing that needs to be done in order for us to have eternal life was done for us by Gods' own son. One cannot think that one can "go to heaven" by doing anything at all.
Christianity even teaches that it by Gods' own power that we can live the Christian life. Any effort to please God by the work of our own hands is destined to failure.
One must rely on God for every breath, and any good that we do is accredited to Christ.
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Originally posted by josephwHow would you reconcile this with John 3, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter into the Kingdom of God"?
Alright then, here it is.
I guess it all depends on how one defines religion. But instead of getting bogged down in that, let's just let it speak for itself.
Take an honest look at the worlds religions. Without exception they all teach that in order to achieve the goal established by its' precepts, one must perform rites and rituals and ceremonies. The ...[text shortened]... e must rely on God for every breath, and any good that we do is accredited to Christ.
Originally posted by Conrau KThe answer is more involved, so I'll cut to the chase.
How would you reconcile this with John 3, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter into the Kingdom of God"?
As a Jew, under the law, a believer would demonstrate his faith by doing what was required by the law. The law required that one keep it for salvation.
Jesus is the only person who ever lived that kept the law. In fact, He took the law a step further.
That step further entails what was accomplished at the cross. What was accomplished at the cross is fully developed by the Apostle Paul.
But before Paul came along Jesus' disciples were instructed to preach the Gospel that He had taught them during His ministry.
Along comes Pentecost, and the beginning of the fulfilment of the prophecy concerning the establishing of Gods' kingdom on earth through Israel.
But, things changed. For one thing, Israel, national, did not repent and recognise that Jesus was the Messiah.
This gets complicated, yet it is so simple.
We now live in a parenthetical period of time called the dispensation of the Grace of God.
It is an unprophesied period of time which was reveled to Paul. Which, ironically enough, was destroying the church of God until Jesus appeared to him.
When this dispensation ends, God will again resume His dealings with Israel with the unfolding of the rest of the prophecy. It will be with a believing Israel who will recognise Jesus as the Messiah.
Anyone who is ever saved is save by Grace regardless of what dispensation he lived in. The difference is that today all that is required is faith in what Jesus did on the cross on our behalf.
There are no ordinances, rites, or rituals. Except the Lords supper. And that isn't about salvation.
The above is only a crude outline. Each point can be proven by scripture. That is, if you believe the Bible. You'll have to do alot of reading between the lines. I can develope this further, but that would take hours, and I need to go to bed.
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Originally posted by josephwI am not sure you have answered my query. John 3 seems to suggest that rebirth by water is necessary for salvation. Many Christians would interpret this as a statement of the necessity of baptism - which is a ritual. Of course, no Christian denies the necessity of grace, nor does any Jew or Muslim probably.
The answer is more involved, so I'll cut to the chase.
As a Jew, under the law, a believer would demonstrate his faith by doing what was required by the law. The law required that one keep it for salvation.
Jesus is the only person who ever lived that kept the law. In fact, He took the law a step further.
That step further entails what was accompl ...[text shortened]... the lines. I can develope this further, but that would take hours, and I need to go to bed.