Religious “givens”

[Prompted by my post in another thread]

What “givens” were you brought up with. Either religious, spiritual or otherwise.

Do you still adhere to these “givens”.

[my post copied from another thread]

I was brought up to believe a raft of “givens” about God, one being that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired and complete word of god to mankind. I am currently agnostic on this assertion.

Another was that the universe, the earth in particular and mankind specifically, was only 6,000 years old. I cannot accept this, not because it is impossible (god can do what he wants) but because the overwhelming in-your-face evidence does not in anyway support this. Except possibly for the timeline of evidence of large civilisations, which is indeed about 6,000 years as I understand it.

@divegeester said
[my post copied from another thread]

I was brought up to believe a raft of “givens” about God, one being that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired and complete word of god to mankind. I am currently agnostic on this assertion.

Another was that the universe, the earth in particular and mankind specifically, was only 6,000 years old. I cannot accept this, not because ...[text shortened]... e timeline of evidence of large civilisations, which is indeed about 6,000 years as I understand it.

I used to think YEC was ridiculous until someone on here pointed out God created Adam as a mature adult and not as a baby. So God could indeed have created a “mature” universe (one that appears that way.)

God existing outside of time and (imo) creating time complicates the question.

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

(2 Peter 3:8)

“For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.”

(Psalm 90:4)

@pb1022 said
I used to think YEC was ridiculous until someone on here pointed out God created Adam as a mature adult and not as a baby. So God could indeed have created a “mature” universe (one that appears that way.)

No offense, but that is probably the lamest explanation for a mature universe I've ever heard. I strongly recommend you return to your previous view that it was ridiculous.

It's right up there with the view I've heard that God put dinosaur bones in rocks to confuse mankind. (Or that all the bones found are fake).

Your best defense for the Genesis creation is that 'day' didn't refer to 'day' as we understand it today, but a period of time. (Day is often used in the Bible to mean a period greater than 24 hours).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
No offense, but that is probably the lamest explanation for a mature universe I've ever heard. I strongly recommend you return to your previous view that it was ridiculous.

It's right up there with the view I've heard that God put dinosaur bones in rocks to confuse mankind. (Or that all the bones found are fake).

Your best defense for the Genesis creation is th ...[text shortened]... oday, but a period of time. (Day is often used in the Bible to mean a period greater than 24 hours).

Apparently the Hebrew word used for day in the Genesis creation account is a 24-hour day so I don’t think it’s possible to claim the word day symbolically refers to an era.

And I don’t think it’s possible for human beings who are born into time and constantly subjected to it to understand what it would be like if time did not exist.

@pb1022 said
Apparently the Hebrew word used for day in the Genesis creation account is a 24-hour day so I don’t think it’s possible to claim the word day symbolically refers to an era.

And I don’t think it’s possible for human beings who are born into time and constantly subjected to it to understand what it would be like if time did not exist.

Old Testament scholar and Hebrew linguist Gleason Archer (1916-2004), a strong advocate for inerrancy, wrote ”On the basis of internal evidence, it is this writer’s conviction that yôm in Genesis could not have been intended by the Hebrew author to mean a literal twenty-four hour day.”

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/biblical-reasons-to-doubt-the-creation-days-were-24-hour-periods/

”What kind of days these were it is extremely difficult, or perhaps impossible, to determine.”

Augustine

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Old Testament scholar and Hebrew linguist Gleason Archer (1916-2004), a strong advocate for inerrancy, wrote ”On the basis of internal evidence, it is this writer’s conviction that yôm in Genesis could not have been intended by the Hebrew author to mean a literal twenty-four hour day.”

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/biblical-reasons-to-doubt-the-creation-days-were-24-hour-periods/

This is an interesting article that addresses Gleason Archer’s view.

https://www.icr.org/article/meaning-day-genesis/

@pb1022 said
This is an interesting article that addresses Gleason Archer’s view.

https://www.icr.org/article/meaning-day-genesis/

Do you accept at least the issue isn't clear-cut? There are Christian scholars out there who question the meaning of 'day' in Genesis.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Do you accept at least the issue isn't clear-cut? There are Christian scholars out there who question the meaning of 'day' in Genesis.

Yes, I accept that. I wasn’t previously aware that it wasn’t clear cut among scholars.

@pb1022 said
Yes, I accept that. I wasn’t previously aware that it wasn’t clear cut among scholars.

I imagine there are far fewer scholars who think God created a mature universe than those who challenge the meaning of 'day' in Genesis.

@pb1022 said
I used to think YEC was ridiculous until someone on here pointed out God created Adam as a mature adult and not as a baby. So God could indeed have created a “mature” universe (one that appears that way.)

God existing outside of time and (imo) creating time complicates the question.

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thou ...[text shortened]... ars in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.”

(Psalm 90:4)

"...God could indeed have created a “mature” universe (one that appears that way.)"

Why bother?

YEC absolutely is ridiculous.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I imagine there are far fewer scholars who think God created a mature universe than those who challenge the meaning of 'day' in Genesis.

Let’s say, as a thought experiment, that God created the universe exactly and literally as described in Genesis.

Would Adam and Eve be able to see the stars?

@pb1022 said
I used to think YEC was ridiculous until someone on here pointed out God created Adam as a mature adult and not as a baby. So God could indeed have created a “mature” universe (one that appears that way.)

You went from it being “ridiculous” to credible because Adam was created as an adult?

It is possible that any all powerful creator could do what it wished who it wished, and it is a fact that time dilation exists. However what is more likely in my opinion is that days in genesis aren’t 24 hour periods, although some like KellyJay will disagree.

@pb1022 said
Apparently the Hebrew word used for day in the Genesis creation account is a 24-hour day so I don’t think it’s possible to claim the word day symbolically refers to an era.

“Apparently” ?