1. Standard membersonship
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    25 Aug '17 01:365 edits
    An early instance in the Bible of manipulation of God's speaking with a totally wrong heart:

    " And Lamech said to his wives, Adah and Zillah,
    listen to my voice, O wives of Lamech,
    hearken to my speech;
    For I have slain a man for wounding me;
    Even a young man for striking me.

    If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
    Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold." (Genesis 4:23-24)


    Genesis is a book which contains all the "seeds" of biblical revelation further developed in latter in the Bible.

    Lamech is an example of the problem of using God's words in a twisted and self-serving way ruining the spirit of them as God originally intended.

    Yes, God had said that if anyone took it upon themselves to punish Cain for his slaying of Abel, God would take vengeance on them. It was still the age of conscience and God had not yet ordained human government or capital punishment with it.

    " And Jehovah said to him [Cain] , Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold. And Jehovah put a mark on Cain, so that anyone who found him would not strike him." (Genesis 4:15)
  2. Standard membersonship
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    25 Aug '17 01:473 edits
    There are a number of these cases which bear studying. That is the reference to God's word yet with a self-serving spirit missing the mark of the heart of God.

    Lamech, the first recorded greedy bigamous who had to have two wives, was wounded in a dispute with a young man. Lamech killed the man. Lamech, with a darkened conscience, opportunistically laid hold of what God had said and twisted it to be a self-serving excuse for his sin.

    " For I have slain a man for wounding me, Even a young man for striking me.
    If Cain is avenged sevenfold,

    Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold." (See Gen. 4:23b,24)


    Ie. "Boy, if you think God will get whoever hurts Cain, God will really get the whoever who messes with me! God is on my side."

    Yes, the words seem right Lamech. But somehow when used by you the heart of God is misrepresented. These words of God were not spoken with the purpose of Lamech's personal rationale to commit crimes with impunity.

    Right words, wrong spirit.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    25 Aug '17 04:15
    Other examples of strange twisting of the words of God in the Bible itself ?
    I have other examples. But I give space to someone else to provide examples.

    Right words of God, but the wrong spirit.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    26 Aug '17 14:481 edit
    Why was Moses not allowed to enter into Canaan the promised land ?
    It was because he misrepresented God. The words were right (almost) in referring to what God had said. But his attitude misrepresented God's heart.

    As a discipline God took Moses aside and told him that he failed to sanctify Him before the people.

    Almost right words, but the wrong spirit.
    Here's a portion of the story.

    " Then Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying,
    Take the rod and gather the assembly, and speak to the rock before their eyes,
    so that it yields its water. Thus you shall bring forth water for them out of the rock. and give the assembly and their livestock a drink. " (Num. 20:7,8)

    This is what God told Moses and what Moses was to do.

    And why did God discipline him. Read on Numbers 20:9-12.

    And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly
  5. Standard membersonship
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    26 Aug '17 15:031 edit
    Moses "creatively" alters God's words and gives a misrepresentation of God's heart.

    " And Moses took the rod from before Jehovah as He had commanded him.

    And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said to them,

    Listen now, you rebels: Shall we bring forth water for you out of this rock ?
    Then Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock twice, and abundant water came forth,
    and the assembly and their livestock drank, "


    God honored His deputy authority and let the miracle occur to give the assembly water.
    But God punished him for the misrepresentation of God's word and God's in the matter.

    "And Jehovah said to Moses and Aaron, Because you did not believe in Me, to sanctify Me in the sight of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them." (Num. 20:9-12)


    Discuss with me.
    Did Moses display the wrong or right spirit, when he referred to God's word to him ?
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    26 Aug '17 15:07
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Other examples of strange twisting of the words of God in the Bible itself ?
    I have other examples. But I give space to someone else to provide examples.

    Right words of God, but the wrong spirit.
    I have an example, but don't think you'll like it.

    So i'll refrain.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    26 Aug '17 15:133 edits
    When I read this story I usually am a little sympathetic to Moses.
    I think that means that the Holy Spirit is still working in me to transform me.

    God told Moses to SPEAK to the rock to release abundant waters.
    Moses lost his temper. By now he had HAD IT!

    "You rebels! Shall we bring forth water for you miraculously from this here rock ?"
    WHAM ! Do it again!
    WHAM ! ( in exasperation, in human anger )
    God must be really angry. Can't just speak to the rock. I have to slam the rock like I'd like to slam these people.

    God is faithful to His intent and promise.
    Discipline comes for using (almost ) the right words yet displaying the wrong spirit.

    " ... Because you did not believe in Me, to sanctify Me in the sight of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this congregation into the land which I promised them."

    It is a serious thing for a servant of God to misrepresent the heart of God or slightly alter the word of God in order to do so.

    Beware of rIght words but the wrong spirit.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    26 Aug '17 15:23
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    I have an example, but don't think you'll like it.

    So i'll refrain.
    Then what do you think about the instance of Numbers 20:7-12 about God scolding Moses for giving the people misrepresentation of the Divine heart there.

    Why does it say that Moses and Aaron did not believe ?
  9. Standard membersonship
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    26 Aug '17 16:33
    Twice it is recorded that God brought forth water from a rock.
    In one instance Moses was to STRIKE the rock with his rod.
    In the other instance Moses was to SPEAK to the rock.

    1.) The instance God's command to STRIKE the rock the rod - Exodus 17.
    2.) The latter instance where God told Moses to SPEAK to the rock - Numbers 20.

    Why was God displeased with Moses in the second instance when Moses STRUCK the rock when God had told him, this time he was just to SPEAK to the rock ?
  10. Standard membersonship
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    26 Aug '17 21:56
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    I have an example, but don't think you'll like it.

    So i'll refrain.
    Let me guess.

    The saved will glorify God with their endless happiness. But the lost will glorify Him with their endless woe. They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds. That punishment is designed to deter others from like guilt is evidenced so often in the Bible.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Aug '17 02:42
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke to sonship
    I have an example, but don't think you'll like it.

    So i'll refrain.
    Would it have disrupted the discussion/debate sonship is involved in?
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    27 Aug '17 02:52
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Would it have disrupted the discussion/debate sonship is involved in?
    You mean the one he was having with himself?
  13. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    27 Aug '17 08:001 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Let me guess.

    The saved will glorify God with their endless happiness. But the lost will glorify Him with their endless woe. They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds. That punishment is designed to deter others from like guilt is evidenced so often in the Bible.
    No.

    I was actually thinking back to when you called another Christian stupid, and rather than doing the Christian thing and apologise, instead provided biblical passages to try and evidence it was okay to say such a thing.

    Do you think this was an example of 'Right words of God, but the wrong spirit?' (Or as you said ' twisting of the words of God' with the wrong spirit? )

    I said you wouldn't like it.
  14. Standard memberapathist
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    27 Aug '17 09:14
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    I have an example, but don't think you'll like it.

    So i'll refrain.
    If you'd refrain, we would not be talking. But we are, because you didn't. You are just holding up the money shot.
  15. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    27 Aug '17 09:261 edit
    Originally posted by @apathist
    If you'd refrain, we would not be talking. But we are, because you didn't. You are just holding up the money shot.
    I knew he would scratch the itch.
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