28 Dec 11
Originally posted by galveston75Jesus was not His real name. Jesus is what the Romans called Him.
Does anyone here agree in full with RJH that (1) Jesus is not the name of God's son and that (2) Jesus is still in the flesh he was resurrected with in heaven?
These are new to me and I've never heard of this belief that he seems to have alone to himself.
Any thoughts?
28 Dec 11
I believe that Jesus was (is) flesh and He was born into this world via virgin birth as foretold in the old testament (Isaiah 9 great example of the coming messiah) When He went to the cross (stake as you believe) He was still flesh. He then was resurrected and He was flesh. Jesus even said Thomas feel here and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bone as I do. (This is all scriptural nothing I'm making up) Now in the book of acts Jesus is seen ascending into Heaven and did He ever change or give up his Flesh? I argue NO Jesus never gave up His flesh (which would be a new thing) He Jesus is seen in heaven in His glorified State with blazing eyes and with might and power yet He is also seen as the slain Lamb!! Jesus still bears the scars as a sign to us and for us. Lastly those who deny Christ came in the flesh are called anti-Christ by John. The final note is this God united Himself with man by YES becoming flesh and in the Person of Christ paid the sin debt for all mankind. There is none in Heaven or on earth or under the sea or anywhere in all of the universe worthy and sinless except God. Christ is and was said to be sinless because He is God.
Manny
28 Dec 11
Originally posted by ChessPraxisJesus is almost certainly not the name of the mythological man of Nazareth and almost certainly was not what the Romans called him.
Jesus was not His real name. Jesus is what the Romans called Him.
Translating names from one language to another is difficult enough
(consider Peter/Pierre/Pedro) but when it involves a different alphabet (twice!) then there is no way anyone will ever know the original pronunciation of the name of the character we now call Jesus.
Arguing about it is futile and irrelevant.
28 Dec 11
Originally posted by wolfgang59Jesus in His Revelation says He will have a new name.
Jesus is almost certainly not the name of the mythological man of Nazareth and almost certainly was not what the Romans called him.
Translating names from one language to another is difficult enough
(consider Peter/Pierre/Pedro) but when it involves a different alphabet (twice!) then there is no way anyone will ever know the original pronunciation of the name of the character we now call Jesus.
Arguing about it is futile and irrelevant.
"The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this:
'He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’
And also,
'To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and
I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which
no one knows but he who receives it.’
and again,
'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I
WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL RULE THEM
WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO
PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father; and I will make
him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore;
and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My
God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God,
and My new name.'"
28 Dec 11
Originally posted by wolfgang59mythical man of Nazareth??? yeah a fictional character that has inspired millions
Jesus is almost certainly not the name of the mythological man of Nazareth and almost certainly was not what the Romans called him.
Translating names from one language to another is difficult enough
(consider Peter/Pierre/Pedro) but when it involves a different alphabet (twice!) then there is no way anyone will ever know the original pronunciation of the name of the character we now call Jesus.
Arguing about it is futile and irrelevant.
with a teaching that remains unsurpassed to this very day,
Although references to Jesus Christ by early secular historians are meagre, such
references do exist. Cornelius Tacitus, a respected first-century Roman historian,
wrote: “The name [Christian] is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius
Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius.” Suetonius and Pliny the Younger, other
Roman writers of the time, also referred to Christ. In addition, Flavius Josephus, a
first-century Jewish historian, wrote of James, whom he identified as “the brother of
Jesus, who was called Christ.”
were these historians making it up wolfie?
28 Dec 11
1 edit
The name and title of the Son of God from the time of his anointing while on earth.
The name Jesus (Gr., Iesous) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” The name itself was not unusual, many men being so named in that period. For this reason persons often added further identification, saying, “Jesus the Nazarene.” (Mr 10:47; Ac 2:22) Christ is from the Greek Khristos, the equivalent of the Hebrew Mashiach (Messiah), and means “Anointed One.” Whereas the expression “anointed one” was properly applied to others before Jesus, such as Moses, Aaron, and David (Heb 11:24-26; Le 4:3; 8:12; 2Sa 22:51), the position, office, or service to which these were anointed only prefigured the superior position, office, and service of Jesus Christ. Jesus is therefore preeminently and uniquely “the Christ, the Son of the living God
28 Dec 11
Originally posted by menace71So the question is Jesus still in flesh in heaven?
I believe that Jesus was (is) flesh and He was born into this world via virgin birth as foretold in the old testament (Isaiah 9 great example of the coming messiah) When He went to the cross (stake as you believe) He was still flesh. He then was resurrected and He was flesh. Jesus even said Thomas feel here and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bone ...[text shortened]... worthy and sinless except God. Christ is and was said to be sinless because He is God.
Manny
28 Dec 11
Originally posted by galveston75Jesus has a glorified and incorruptible body in heaven. He is no longer
So the question is Jesus still in flesh in heaven?
just a spirit as He was before, as the Word, as John reports in John 1:1.
After Jesus was resurrected He referred to His body as flesh and bone.
This flesh and bone was changed in some way to make it incorruptible.
He was in this body when He was taken up into heaven and every eye
will see this body when He returns. So even though His flesh is not
the same as our flesh, Jesus still called His body flesh and bone.
28 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsYour'e so wrong and have no proof what so ever that he is in the flesh. This is so silly to even think that and frankly a really dumb statement.
Jesus has a glorified and incorruptible body in heaven. He is no longer
just a spirit as He was before, as the Word, as John reports in John 1:1.
After Jesus was resurrected He referred to His body as flesh and bone.
This flesh and bone was changed in some way to make it incorruptible.
He was in this body when He was taken up into heaven and every eye
...[text shortened]... even though His flesh is not
the same as our flesh, Jesus still called His body flesh and bone.
Jesus is a spirit just as his Father is.....................
1 Peter 3:18
Good News Translation (GNT)
18 For Christ died[a] for sins once and for all, a good man on behalf of sinners, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually,
Chew on this for awhile.
28 Dec 11
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Made alive spiritually in an incorruptibe and immortal body of flesh and
Your'e so wrong and have no proof what so ever that he is in the flesh. This is so silly to even think that and frankly a really dumb statement.
Jesus is a spirit just as his Father is.....................
1 Peter 3:18
Good News Translation (GNT)
18 For Christ died[a] for sins once and for all, a good man on behalf of sinners, in order to lead y ...[text shortened]... to God. He was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually,
Chew on this for awhile.
bone capable of eating fish and being touched by another physical body.
If that is not also physical I do not know what else it could be because
Jesus said His body was not spirit but flesh and bone.
Chew on this for awhile, Spanky. 😏
28 Dec 11
3 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsGeeeez. Why do I even try?
Made alive spiritually in an incorruptibe and immortal body of flesh and
bone capable of eating fish and being touched by another physical body.
If that is not also physical I do not know what else it could be because
Jesus said His body was not spirit but flesh and bone.
Chew on this for awhile, Spanky. 😏
Jesus was raised as a spirit as the Bible clearly says. But as a spirit being and like all other spirit beings with the exception of God himself as the Bible clearly says that "no man may see God and live" they can materize flesh. Jesus did it many times after he was resurrected but looked different every time. So he did not use the same flesh or look the same everytime. That is why on the different occasions he appeard to them they did not know him.
Are you able to comprehind that from the scriptures at all?
But once Jesus accended to heaven he lost that last fleshly body he had materialzed and then accended to heaven as a spirtual being and has since sat at the right hand of his Father.
No flesh and blood can live in heaven no matter how hard you want that to happen.
If you think it can then blast yourself up in the next rocket and step out into space without a suit and see how it goes....
And where exactly is this scripture that Jesus said his flesh and blood is in heaven and doing well? You still have not produced this yet
29 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterThe JWs think the following verses prove Jesus was raised as a Spirit.
err... where does it clearly say this please?
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He
might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by
the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited
in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few,
that is, eight souls, were saved through water. (1 Peter 3:18-20 NKJV)
Some versions translate this as "made alive in the Spirit" so the JWs
take this to mean Jesus was resurrected only in Spirit to preach to
the disobedient spirits in prision. They ignore anything dealing with
His bodily resurrection such as the sign Jesus gave to the Jew that
predicted His bodily resurrection in John 2:18-22 NKJV below.
So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to
us, since You do these things?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three
days I will raise it up.”
Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple,
and will You raise it up in three days?”
But He was speaking of the temple of His body. Therefore, when He had
risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to
them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.
29 Dec 11
Originally posted by galveston75Jesus did not look different every time. The Holy Bible does not say that.
Geeeez. Why do I even try?
Jesus was raised as a spirit as the Bible clearly says. But as a spirit being and like all other spirit beings with the exception of God himself as the Bible clearly says that "no man may see God and live" they can materize flesh. Jesus did it many times after he was resurrected but looked different every time. So he did no ...[text shortened]... sus said his flesh and blood is in heaven and doing well? You still have not produced this yet
Jesus kept them from recognizing Him until He was ready for them to
recognize him. Let me give you an example.
So it was, while they conversed and reasoned, that Jesus Himself drew
near and went with them. But their eyes were restrained, so that they
did not know Him. (Luke 24:15-16 NKJV)
Jesus wanted to explain things in the scripture to them first so He
restrained their eyes so that they did not know Him until he had
finished. Nowhere does the Holy Bible say He appeared in a different
body to different people. You are making this up.
I have already explained to you that the resurrected body Jesus had
was changed from corruptible and mortal to incorruptible and
immortal. So with that kind of body there is no reason He could not
have ascended into heaven with the same body by which He appeared
to the disciples.