Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont think he was saying that at all, of course atheists can produce good music, i think his point is that the spiritual experience should help the convinced atheist to transcend the mundane and think more in terms of the divine, at least that's how it appears to me.

Well then I did understand him. And I find it half-baked. I still think he's being tongue in cheek.

Here's some music that FMF likes:

http://radiorhp.blogspot.com/

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Do you carry/know a meter which decides the degrees of getting carried away by great music?Or you have predefined all theists as morons anyway. I am classifying all those who remain unmoved after listening to great music as either deaf or tone deaf or animals on the lower rungs of evolution.

Oh, it's definately the latter.
I mean, if an adult still believes in a tooth fairy, I can safely suggest he's either psychotic or has a lower than average intelligence.

And there's no difference in this respect between a God, a tooth fairy or a leprechaun.

So, yeah, take your pick: psychotic or moronic.
It's only the degree of needed medication which is different.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Oh, it's definately the latter.
I mean, if an adult still believes in a tooth fairy, I can safely suggest he's either psychotic or has a lower than average intelligence.

And there's no difference in this respect between a God, a tooth fairy or a leprechaun.

So, yeah, take your pick: psychotic or moronic.
It's only the degree of needed medication which is different.

no, reducing everything to base materialism lacks understanding and is moronic, sooo
lets test you out, shall we, how does an appreciation of music contribute to our
survival as a species, Einstein? after all, its merely a material process if your , how
can we say it kindly, 'inspired expressions', are to be believed.

Originally posted by FMF
Wow. You don't process disagreement very well do you?

I find your feigned "surprise" very interesting and I assume it's a kind of transparent spin you're attempting. The fact that atheists and non-religionists can make and consume sublime music without the need for a religionist creed or belief in God, if anything, undermines your suggestion that the said sublime music proves the existence of God.

I did not fake any surprise. But I will be happy to find out from all posters as to who were/are the atheist Musicians who composed/played great Music.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I did not fake any surprise. But I will be happy to find out from all posters as to who were/are the atheist Musicians who composed/played great Music.

Ah so you're simply going to skip the main point I made. Again. Later, no doubt, you'll be complaining that nobody made any points and that people have got it in for you. 😀

Originally posted by shavixmir
Oh, it's definately the latter.
I mean, if an adult still believes in a tooth fairy, I can safely suggest he's either psychotic or has a lower than average intelligence.

And there's no difference in this respect between a God, a tooth fairy or a leprechaun.

So, yeah, take your pick: psychotic or moronic.
It's only the degree of needed medication which is different.

For your information I am perfectly normal and reasonably intelligent person being a National Merit Scholar from end of high school onwards and I graduated from one of the topmost engineering colleges of India. Lived a perfectly fulfilled life. At the age of 65,am the team leader of a complex urban flyover construction project. I love chess.reading,travelling,music. Far from being a pschycotic or moron. If you want to debate seriously,forget personal attacks.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
For your information I am perfectly normal and reasonably intelligent person being a National Merit Scholar from end of high school onwards and I graduated from one of the topmost engineering colleges of India. Lived a perfectly fulfilled life. At the age of 65,am the team leader of a complex urban flyover construction project. I love chess.reading,travel ...[text shortened]... . Far from being a pschycotic or moron. If you want to debate seriously,forget personal attacks.

So, why do you believe in a God then?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no, reducing everything to base materialism lacks understanding and is moronic, sooo
lets test you out, shall we, how does an appreciation of music contribute to our
survival as a species, Einstein? after all, its merely a material process if your , how
can we say it kindly, 'inspired expressions', are to be believed.

I don't think musical appreciation contributes to our survival as a species.

Originally posted by shavixmir
I don't think musical appreciation contributes to our survival as a species.

a simply, i cannot explain it in materialistic terms would have sufficed.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
a simply, i cannot explain it in materialistic terms would have sufficed.

Humans survived hundreds of thousands of years without music. They still evolved and prospered.

I really don't see what you're on about.
What are materialistic terms of music? Whacking someone on the head with a guitar and saying: "He who won't listen, will feel?"

Originally posted by twhitehead
They are not missiles and they are in no way intended to harm you or even argue against you. They are not arguments at all. I am trying to clarify your position. You always seem to go on the defensive even when I am asking you genuine honest questions about your beliefs.

You have stated that you believe appreciation of music should lead to belief in Go ...[text shortened]... ys, but you seem rather reluctant to answer and instead accuse us of lacking reasoned arguments.

Yes I will certainly clarify my position. I value your posts,although your views are diametrically opposite. My belief in God is an acquired one. I was an agnostic for most of my adult life. Gradually I have come to believe in God after much deliberation. There has been no peer pressure nor family pressure. If anything my parents and maternal grandfather were believers in logic. Once when on a pilgrimage to the Himalayan shrine of Kedarnath along with wife, I felt a rush of emotion of love for God never before felt by me whem the temple located on a peak 3700 m high came into view. Not high altitude sickness, I assure you. The grandeur of the scene and the holy atmosphere was the inmediate cause of my conversion. So why great music will not cause this change?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Do you carry/know a meter which decides the degrees of getting carried away by great music?Or you have predefined all theists as morons anyway. I am classifying all those who remain unmoved after listening to great music as either deaf or tone deaf or animals on the lower rungs of evolution.

I am classifying all those who remain unmoved after listening to great music as either deaf or tone deaf or animals on the lower rungs of evolution.

This is the first time I have ever felt moved to voice my disagreement at one of your posts rvsakhadeo! I know of at least one person who I think might cause you to reconsider your classification. He is a gifted violinist who assures me he has never felt 'moved' by his own or anybody else's music - he tells me that he appreciates it in much the same way as he does mathematics. He has pretty much perfect pitch and he's at least as high on the evolutionary ladder as I am (dunno if that's saying much though!).

Originally posted by avalanchethecat

I am classifying all those who remain unmoved after listening to great music as either deaf or tone deaf or animals on the lower rungs of evolution.

This is the first time I have ever felt moved to voice my disagreement at one of your posts rvsakhadeo! I know of at least one person who I think might cause you to reconsider your cla ...[text shortened]... at least as high on the evolutionary ladder as I am (dunno if that's saying much though!).

yes one may have perfect pitch and play with perfect technique, but its those who instil in their rendition the human element that really appeals to us, otherwise, violins would be best played by robots.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Humans survived hundreds of thousands of years without music. They still evolved and prospered.

I really don't see what you're on about.
What are materialistic terms of music? Whacking someone on the head with a guitar and saying: "He who won't listen, will feel?"

The point is that its superfluous to our survival and cannot be accounted for in terms of air molecules meeting neuron receptors and synapses. In other words its spiritual.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The point is that its superfluous to our survival and cannot be accounted for in terms of air molecules meeting neuron receptors and synapses. In other words its spiritual.

In other words, you've just laid bare you measly understanding of Darwinian theory.