Salvation???

Originally posted by menace71
Amen To that Jaywill. 😉 What deeds can we do to gain our salvation?? Nothing !!

We do good works in gratitude of What Christ did but not to earn our salvation.




Manny

Your wrong Manny. So you think we can just sit on our butts and say I believe in the Lord and that's all there is to it? Lol.. You need to read the Bible more and understand that saying you believe in Jesus and repent of your past sins is only the start. If this is all that was needed then why did Jesus comission his followers to do more?

Matt 9:37 & 10:7, 11-13 & 24:14, 28:19.
Luke 10: 1-7.
John 6:27 & 9:4 & 14:12 & 17:4.
Acts 20: 20,21 & 26:20.
1 Tim 4:10
James 2: 14, ((((( 26 ))))) & 5:20.

The actual works do not save you but the right heart condition and the willingness to do as Jesus commanded his followers is what we have to do and should want to do. The belief that all you have to do is be a good person, go to church is not all that is required by any means. In fact it's most religions faults that ones don't do their works or know what they even are. The clergy have taken that away from ones who should be doing this work and have convienced ones like yourself that it's not needed.

A scripture that puts salvation into perspective is Matt 24:22. If ones are saved NOW how does this scripture explain that? No one is Saved until after this event happens.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
of what significance does anything have in relation to humanity before the founding of the world? before language?

The point is that this name would only have acquired its meanings, which make it appropriate as a name for God, in classical Hebrew. Presumably, then, before and after classical Hebrew and in places where Hebrew never existed, it would not have been appropriate as a name for God.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
What has come to be known by the term 'repent' in the original languages of the Bible meant something entirely different. Simply put, to repent meant to change one's mind.

Does this definition bear on the present discussion? (By the way, I will respond to your post in another thread sometime from now -- just letting you know.)

Originally posted by Conrau K
The point is that this name would only have acquired its meanings, which make it appropriate as a name for God, in classical Hebrew. Presumably, then, before and after classical Hebrew and in places where Hebrew never existed, it would not have been appropriate as a name for God.

i fail to see how a name that is intrinsic to Gods purpose, which i identifies him as the great fulfiller of purposes,which Christ makes manifest and to which he asks first and foremost in prayer to be sanctified, has no significance other than it was initially rendered in Hebrew characters after which it became obsolete??? Is that what you are suggesting Conrau? The fact that the Israelites were charged as a nation dedicated to God, for the spreading of that name in all its meaning, is also not without significance. Removing it from the ancient text as translators have done, rendering it with inane references to Lord has resulted in confusion, a practice for which they had no authority and which they are reprehensible for.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i fail to see how a name that is intrinsic to Gods purpose, which i identifies him as the great fulfiller of purposes,which Christ makes manifest and to which he asks first and foremost in prayer to be sanctified, has no significance other than it was initially rendered in Hebrew characters after which it became obsolete??? Is that what you are sugg ...[text shortened]... d in confusion, a practice for which they had no authority and which they are reprehensible for.

i fail to see how a name that is intrinsic to Gods purpose, which i identifies him as the great fulfiller of purposes,which Christ makes manifest and to which he asks first and foremost in prayer to be sanctified, has no significance other than it was initially rendered in Hebrew characters after which it became obsolete??? Is that what you are suggesting Conrau?

No; I have no issue with the meaning behind the word. I just wonder why the Hebrew characters should still be used. Why not use an English equivalent? What if a language had a similar word to Jehovah which actually meant something very different?

he fact that the Israelites were charged as a nation dedicated to God, for the spreading of that name in all its meaning, is also not without significance. Removing it from the ancient text as translators have done, rendering it with inane references to Lord has resulted in confusion, a practice for which they had no authority and which they are reprehensible for.

Yes, but Greek is the language of the New Testament and that point is also significant. So why should Jehovah remain the name for God now that classical Hebrew has passed on?

Originally posted by Conrau K
[i fail to see how a name that is intrinsic to Gods purpose, which i identifies him as the great fulfiller of purposes,which Christ makes manifest and to which he asks first and foremost in prayer to be sanctified, has no significance other than it was initially rendered in Hebrew characters after which it became obsolete??? Is that what you are suggesti nificant. So why should Jehovah remain the name for God now that classical Hebrew has passed on?[/b]

i think that the name is entirely unique. It is rendered in the equivalent English characters, that is why it is rendered Jehovah, JHVH being the equivalent of the four Hebrew characters of the tetragrammaton. The exact pronunciation of the vowels having been lost in time due in part to the Hebrews aversion to pronouncing the name lest that it be construed that they have taken it in vain, a capital punishment.

it should remain because there are many portions of the Christian Greek scriptures that are rendered directly from the Hebrew and secondly there are many instances when it is clear and necessary that the original name is inferred, plus, it helps to distinguish between the Father and the son, for much confusion has arisen due the substitution of the Hebrew and Greek terms Adhonia and Kyrios respectively. Other Gods have names, the Gods of the Phoenicians etc, why is it so strange that the God of the Hebrews should also have a name?

Originally posted by galveston75
Your wrong Manny. So you think we can just sit on our butts and say I believe in the Lord and that's all there is to it? Lol.. You need to read the Bible more and understand that saying you believe in Jesus and repent of your past sins is only the start. If this is all that was needed then why did Jesus comission his followers to do more?

Matt 9:37 & ...[text shortened]... ed NOW how does this scripture explain that? No one is Saved until after this event happens.

You can't earn your salvation there G75. It is un-merited favor or grace bestowed upon man by God. This does not excuse us from doing good works but we do these works not out of obligation or to gain merit but the love of God has been poured out into our hearts to do these works. You are going to stand before Jehovah God and say look what I did to earn my salvation?? No I don't think so. So you grossly mis-understood what I meant.



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
You can't earn your salvation there G75. It is un-merited favor or grace bestowed upon man by God. This does not excuse us from doing good works but we do these works not out of obligation or to gain merit but the love of God has been poured out into our hearts to do these works. You are going to stand before Jehovah God and say look what I did to earn my salvation?? No I don't think so. So you grossly mis-understood what I meant.



Manny

Did I ever say that? Don't think so.... But the point is "Works" have to be involved which you origioanly said nothing has to be done. Right?
And not just everyday good works. We have to do what Jesus told his followers to do which most don't. Matt 24:14 & 28:19,20.
Does your church and it's members do this?

Originally posted by galveston75
Did I ever say that? Don't think so.... But the point is "Works" have to be involved which you origioanly said nothing has to be done. Right?
And not just everyday good works. We have to do what Jesus told his followers to do which most don't. Matt 24:14 & 28:19,20.
Does your church and it's members do this?

Actually I don't attend any church these days. Works do not save. Salvation can't be earned. Knocking on doors in and of it's self are not going to save. The salvation part is a gift from God.




Manny

Originally posted by Conrau K
No one is talking about 'earning' salvation. What is disputed is whether a person can commit sin and without repentance still hope for the rewards of Christ's salvation. If you think he can, then you presumably subscribe to the belief that murderers, rapists and genocidal maniacs may still be saved without an ounce of contrition. I think that belief would b ...[text shortened]... orrifying and totally counter to Jesus' teachings about the kingdom and need for repentance.

Agreed repentance would be a sign of a person understanding salvation and having a true contrite heart.




Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Actually I don't attend any church these days. Works do not save. Salvation can't be earned. Knocking on doors in and of it's self are not going to save. The salvation part is a gift from God.




Manny

But you don't get it Manny. Knocking on doors is what Jesus said to do and knocking on doors teaches ones what they need to do to learn about God and his plans for us all. It teaches others who God is and what he expetcs from us. Do you really not see the need and what this scripture means to all including you? Rom 10: 14, 15.

Originally posted by galveston75
But you don't get it Manny. Knocking on doors is what Jesus said to do and knocking on doors teaches ones what they need to do to learn about God and his plans for us all. It teaches others who God is and what he expetcs from us. Do you really not see the need and what this scripture means to all including you? Rom 10: 14, 15.

Do you knock on doors?? I bet not!!
So knocking on doors will get me saved??



Manny

10And,
"YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."

13But to which of the angels has He ever said,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET"?


Psalm 102:25
25"Of old You founded the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

The whole book of Hebrews is in reference to Christ and His superiority over the old
covenant.

V13 Is very telling as it proves Christ was not an angel.

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Do you knock on doors?? I bet not!!
So knocking on doors will get me saved??



Manny

Yes I do regularly as all JW's do. That in itself will not get you saved but it will do good in that direction and you will be helping others. Is that not worth it? Or should your salvation be free with no work involved?

We are going around in circles.
Christ is not an angel that is for sure.



Manny