1. Joined
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    06 Mar '12 20:33
    According to the Bible and especially the scripture at 2 Cor 11:14 it says Satan can transform himself into an "angel of light" and this would no doubt apply to his followers the demons also.
    Since they are able to show themselves as light or having truth, how would ones recognize this if it were presented to them and to know it was not indeed the truth of the Bible and of course God inspired?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Mar '12 20:42
    Originally posted by galveston75
    According to the Bible and especially the scripture at 2 Cor 11:14 it says Satan can transform himself into an "angel of light" and this would no doubt apply to his followers the demons also.
    Since they are able to show themselves as light or having truth, how would ones recognize this if it were presented to them and to know it was not indeed the truth of the Bible and of course God inspired?
    Everyone will have follow their own instinct, but for me, truth in doctrine is what Christ preached. Other doctrines [for me] might very well be of Satan.
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    06 Mar '12 21:54
    unsure were it is but think the bible says question all visions, they can either say the truth or decive but not lie. thats why they can look like angels of light to decive.
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    06 Mar '12 22:45
    Originally posted by galveston75
    how would ones recognize this if it were presented to them and to know it was not indeed the truth of the Bible and of course God inspired?
    By using the same methodology which identifies why Jesus is neither the Arch-angel Michael nor Abaddon the destroyer.
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    06 Mar '12 22:46
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Everyone will have follow their own instinct, but for me, truth in doctrine is what Christ preached. Other doctrines [for me] might very well be of Satan.
    I agree and as you are saying the truth is in the teachings of Jesus. But it seems to me that many would be fooled into believeing what they hear from men as well as demons is the truth. In fact we know the Bible warns that many would try to mislead and teach false things that appear to be right.
    So how can a person know they are being told the truth? That's the serious part and according to the Bible many would be tricked and honestly believe they hear the truth but in fact it would not be truthful.
    How do we know?
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    07 Mar '12 16:42
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I agree and as you are saying the truth is in the teachings of Jesus. But it seems to me that many would be fooled into believeing what they hear from men as well as demons is the truth. In fact we know the Bible warns that many would try to mislead and teach false things that appear to be right.
    So how can a person know they are being told the truth? ...[text shortened]... d honestly believe they hear the truth but in fact it would not be truthful.
    How do we know?
    No thoughts out there?????
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    07 Mar '12 17:49
    Originally posted by galveston75
    No thoughts out there?????
    You do not know: you cannot know, that is why they call it faith. Some might say 'Place your bets gentlemen please'.
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    07 Mar '12 18:24
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    You do not know: you cannot know, that is why they call it faith. Some might say 'Place your bets gentlemen please'.
    Thanks for your answer. But I think that if one has a religious teaching or belief and is sharing that with others or is being taught by another to you, first that teaching should be consistant throughout the entire Bible, second it would have no contradictions within the Bible at all and that teaching should be from God and not of a man made origin. And third, it should have no teachings of a pagan origin even in the slightist amount. " A little leven ferments the whole lump".
    Just my thought....
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    08 Mar '12 14:10
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I agree and as you are saying the truth is in the teachings of Jesus. But it seems to me that many would be fooled into believeing what they hear from men as well as demons is the truth. In fact we know the Bible warns that many would try to mislead and teach false things that appear to be right.
    So how can a person know they are being told the truth? ...[text shortened]... d honestly believe they hear the truth but in fact it would not be truthful.
    How do we know?
    I can understand illiterate people being fooled by men. but if you can read and understand then there is no excuse. Reading the Bible especially what Christ said is the key to salvation.
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    08 Mar '12 16:37
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I can understand illiterate people being fooled by men. but if you can read and understand then there is no excuse. Reading the Bible especially what Christ said is the key to salvation.
    Yes it is. Spiritual knowledge should lead to good relationship with God but it's the heart that's the tricky thing in the equasion. Many people do have a good heart or a decently good heart but it still controls our motives as the Bible says.
    And fortunently the Bible also says the heart can be trained to help transform us to come inline with Gods ways and to help us become his servants and that will in turn help us to have a happy and fulfilling life now and in the future.
    But one has to have the kind of heart that will also make the decisions we sometimes have to make to really serve God and sometimes those decisions might mean to turn our backs on riches, employement, etc. Sometimes that may even mean death for us just as it did for Jesus.
    But if ones heart is not right they could read every word of the Bible and still never see what it says because Jehovah does not let them see. The Bible is a gift and a key to salvation. That gift is not for everyone and this is how Jehovah rewards those with that right heart by letting them see the truth or the ability to connect the dots so to say.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Mar '12 14:011 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Yes it is. Spiritual knowledge should lead to good relationship with God but it's the heart that's the tricky thing in the equasion. Many people do have a good heart or a decently good heart but it still controls our motives as the Bible says.
    And fortunently the Bible also says the heart can be trained to help transform us to come inline with Gods wa ...[text shortened]... h that right heart by letting them see the truth or the ability to connect the dots so to say.
    Thats fine, but we cannot judge who has and who has not the right heart. Only Christ knows that. Only Christ can tell who is saved, who will be saved etc. This is why those who claim they are saved or others they know are saved is wrong. You cannot preempt Christ and claim salvation. Christ will decide that on the day of judgment.

    I also disagree that spiritual knowledge [depending on your definition] leads to a good relationship with God. I also disagree that the Bible is the key to salvation.

    First Christ and the doctrine of Christ and his teachings is the key to salvation. Faith in Christ and demonstrating that faith by your good works, is the key to salvation. Im sure you dont need me to provide references for that. I can if you like.

    Next, in the parable of the Good Samaritan, Christ will give the Good Samaritan eternal life, and the Priest and Levite who both possessed spiritual knowledge were clearly far from God, and will get damnation. Spiritual knowledge is just knowing what God wants and likes and expects. KNOWING means nothing if it is not converted into ACTION and GOOD WORKS. A man can know everything, but if when he is tested and is required to APPLY what he knows, if he cannot apply his knowledge, then he has failed .. just like the Priest and Levite in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Christ is looking for people who can APPLY their knowledge and who have the right heart and mind. Anyone who cannot convert their knowledge into Good works is far from God, and according to Christ in Matt 25, they will be like the goats who will get damnation.

    As usual I can provide references to everything I said .. please let me know if you want further clarification.

    Next, I have often quoted Romans 2 v 9 to 15, where Paul goes into detail about Gentiles who have no law but still can do good works. But most Christians dont like the implications of that passage.
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    09 Mar '12 18:29
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Thats fine, but we cannot judge who has and who has not the right heart. Only Christ knows that. Only Christ can tell who is saved, who will be saved etc. This is why those who claim they are saved or others they know are saved is wrong. You cannot preempt Christ and claim salvation. Christ will decide that on the day of judgment.

    I also disagree that s ...[text shortened]... law but still can do good works. But most Christians dont like the implications of that passage.
    Yes I do agree with you completely in your first line. No disagreements there.

    But I do disagree with the knowledge part. According to a few scriptures it is esential to have knowledge and that in turn will teach us and affect our hearts to come inline with spiriual issues.

    Proverbs 1:7
    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    7The reverent and worshipful fear of the Lord is the beginning and the principal and choice part of knowledge [its starting point and its essence]; but fools despise skillful and godly Wisdom, instruction, and discipline.


    Isaiah 11:9
    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    9They shall not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

    John 17:3
    Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)

    3You are the only true God. If they know you ( learning or knowledge of him ), and Jesus Christ whom you sent, they will live for ever.

    There are many more scriptures that atest to "knowing" or the knowledge of him that will lead one to life.
    True their are many that can't learn the deeper things in the Bible because of dissablities and the like and Jehovah knows that and will understand their situation but for the normal person learning and the knowledge hopefully gained will help them to do God's will and follow his son's examples and commands.
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    09 Mar '12 19:171 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    No thoughts out there?????
    Some positions squelch thoughtful reply.

    Those of the form "Anyone who disagrees with this text is being deceived by Satan" are prime examples.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Mar '12 19:24
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Thats fine, but we cannot judge who has and who has not the right heart. Only Christ knows that. Only Christ can tell who is saved, who will be saved etc. This is why those who claim they are saved or others they know are saved is wrong. You cannot preempt Christ and claim salvation. Christ will decide that on the day of judgment.
    Apparently, however, it IS okay to come into an internet forum and decide that everyone BUT YOU is wrong and will not be saved. How Christian of you.
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    09 Mar '12 19:28
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I agree and as you are saying the truth is in the teachings of Jesus. But it seems to me that many would be fooled into believeing what they hear from men as well as demons is the truth. In fact we know the Bible warns that many would try to mislead and teach false things that appear to be right.
    So how can a person know they are being told the truth? ...[text shortened]... d honestly believe they hear the truth but in fact it would not be truthful.
    How do we know?
    By adhereing to Scriptural truth and avoiding being sucked into cults and their doctrines of demons.
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