scoffing at others

================================

I'd be raised up and judged and I'd say sorry and that for not believing and stuff. I'm sure god would be forgiving. I mean, I've lived a decent life and that so far. Theres no real reason to punish me except for me saying I don't believe in him and that. But when he appeared I could hardly carry on denying it could I?

=======================================

If you do not understand the essence of the Gospel of Christ let me assist you here.

There is no such thing as free forgiveness. God forgives because justice has been carried out. He forgives because justice has been imputed and fulfilled for the offending transgression.

Now there are only two places in the universe in which I will be judged. Either I will be judged on the cross of Calvary, in the death of Christ when He was crucified, or I will be judged at the great white throne judgment at the end of history. One of these two places justice must fall on my behalf and on your behalf.

You and I will be forgiven if we agree with God that on the cross of Calvary the divine judgment for our sins fell upon the Son of God. Justice was imputed upon Jesus Christ on our behalf. If we accept Christ as our Judged One on our behalf, we are saved.

If we do not want to acknowledge that we were judged in Christ, on Calvary, on His cross in His redemptive death, then we will face justice at the end of history before the throne of God.

You see, for God to forgive me, as a believer, is not free. From my perspective it seems free. But from the standpoint of God there is no such thing as free forgiveness. It was paid for by Christ on His cross when God judged US in His Son Jesus.

This scheme has been established not by man or by men. It has been established by the authority of the ultimate Governor of this universe. If we receive the living Christ we actually receive Him as our righteousness and we agree with God that we were judged already on His cross.

This is the power of the gospel. We can say with all boldness:

"God, whether you like me or you do not like me, it is righteous for you to forgive me because I have been judged on the cross of Jesus. I accept that Jesus has died for me, on my behalf, in my place, and has atoned for my sins. It is righteous for you to forgive me. You are bound by your own eternal righteousness to forgive me because Christ has died in my place and I accept that. I accept Him as having received Justice for my sins in my place."

Even if God doesn't like you, He is bound by His own righteousness to release you from the dept of your iniquity. In fact He no longer even remembers your sins. He has not overlooked them. He has judged them.

Do you understand ? You accknowledge that you have already been judged for eternity on the cross of Jesus at Calvary.

If you pray in this manner, believing that you were judged in Christ on His cross, you will have a peace with God which no one and nothing will ever be able to rob you of.

You tell the universe, you tell God, you say "I have been judged already on the cross of Jesus in His death."

Then you will have the real assurance and peace within which no one can ever take from you.

If christ has already been crucified then have we been judged already?

And why do you believe this is the truth? Extra points if you can tell me without quoting the bible.

====================================

If christ has already been crucified then have we been judged already?

=====================================

That is the question that you have to answer.

If you believe it truly then you have no cause to be concerned. If you still have some bothering as to what this really means to you personally, then something not at peace is still a trouble to you.

The peace of Christ in one's heart cannot be replaced or substituted by anything. Don't argue with me. Seek the peace of Christ from knowing that in Him, in Christ you are fully received as justified.

============================

And why do you believe this is the truth? Extra points if you can tell me without quoting the bible.

==============================

Now you must know that I am not interested in points, extra or otherwise.

My reward is that perhaps one person will say, "I think I will open up a New Testament tonight, and read about this for myself." It is enough. I am overjoyed that I could encourage one person to open the Bible and read about Jesus.


The assurance come from regeneration. Regenaration is to receive another life in addition to the life you were born with. In regeneration another Person comes and merges, blends, and harmonizes with your being. And you know it.

This person is the one who rose from the dead.

"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)

Now let me say something about quoting the Bible. When I was in college my friend Randy and I use to have argument after argument about God and Christ and salvation. I do not remember ANY of the contents of those arguements. I don't remember his points. I don't remember my own. And we talked for hours it seems.

The only thing I remember is, for the most part, is one or two things in which he spoke to me directly what was written in the Bible. I never forgot that. And that is why when speaking with people, I always and without any sense of shame, try to remember to speak the word of God.

I cannot possibly improve on the way the word of God says it.

And His word is living and operative like a two edged sword. We need that you know? We need for His word to cut through the layers upon layers of decption which keeps us in spiritual darkness.

God is light. And in Him there is no darkness at all.

No extra points for you.

If gods omniscient, then he's already judged me so I doubt what I think can make much difference. Anyway, he'd gain a lot more respect if he stopped hiding and started putting in a few appearances around the place.

I read the new testament once. It was ok I guess. The writing was quite good, but I didn't believe it still. Oh well, if you're wrong then you won't know anything about it after you die anyway, and if I'm wrong, I'll tell god to stick it in his eye and damn me all over.

Or not probably. Either way, good luck to us both I reckon.

============================
No extra points for you.
==========================

Thanks. Its useless baggage.

=============================
If gods omniscient, then he's already judged me so I doubt what I think can make much difference. Anyway, he'd gain a lot more respect if he stopped hiding and started putting in a few appearances around the place.
==============================


===================================
I read the new testament once. It was ok I guess. The writing was quite good, but I didn't believe it still. Oh well, if you're wrong then you won't know anything about it after you die anyway, and if I'm wrong, I'll tell god to stick it in his eye and damn me all over.
===================================

I think an equally important question is whether or not you're worth a damn to begin with.

I turned to Christ because there was no meaning to life without Him. I never met an agnostic or atheist who had even the faintest idea why they were alive.

Most of them I ask say something like "Why does there have to be a meaning?"


=============================
Or not probably. Either way, good luck to us both I reckon.
================================

I'll have no regrets even if I turn out to be wrong. I'd trust in Christ all over again if I had to do so. I'd give myself completely to Jesus Christ even earlier in life. I could not have asked for a better life.

It is the best possible life I could have lived. No regrets whatsoever.

However, I think the Bible is telling us the truth.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]============================
No extra points for you.
==========================

Thanks. Its useless baggage.

=============================
If gods omniscient, then he's already judged me so I doubt what I think can make much difference. Anyway, he'd gain a lot more respect if he stopped hiding and started putting in a few appear ved. No regrets whatsoever.

However, I think the Bible is telling us the truth.

[/b]I turned to Christ because there was no meaning to life without Him. I never met an agnostic or atheist who had even the faintest idea why they were alive.

Most of them I ask say something like "Why does there have to be a meaning?"

Well, I usually ask what people mean by “meaning”, first. 😉

I'll have no regrets even if I turn out to be wrong... I could not have asked for a better life. It is the best possible life I could have lived. No regrets whatsoever.

I cannot think of the proper words at the moment to affirm those sentiments. So, just consider them affirmed. (EDIT: Though that may be a bit like "extra points", and you don't need my affirmation either. Just take it as well-inentioned.)

Originally posted by jaywill
I turned to Christ because there was no meaning to life without Him. I never met an agnostic or atheist who had even the faintest idea why they were alive.

Most of them I ask say something like "Why does there have to be a meaning?"

Why is blue?

If if blue requires no meaning, what makes life so special?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Why is blue?

If if blue requires no meaning, what makes life so special?

Because the number three smells better.
Kelly

==========================

Well, I usually ask what people mean by “meaning”, first.

================================


I did spend some time in a realm like that. Honestly. It was during a time I was reading Norman O Brown and Alan Watts (Zen Buddhist). I thought long and hard about the issue of meaninglessness.

Then one day, I was sitting on the upper floor of my college building and looking out the window. I saw down on the street a young man walking across the street. I noticed that he quickened his pace as he saw an oncoming automobile approaching him.

I meditated on this scene. The young man quickened his pace so as not to be in that same spot when the car arrived at where he was in the middle of the street.

On that moment I think I dropped the idea that there was no meaning to human life. Though I still did not know why I was here. I gathered that self preservation must indicate that human life is meaningful.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==========================

Well, I usually ask what people mean by “meaning”, first.

================================


I did spend some time in a realm like that. Honestly. It was during a time I was reading Norman O Brown and Alan Watts (Zen Buddhist). I thought long and hard about the issue of meaninglessness.

Then one day, I ...[text shortened]... w why I was here. I gathered that self preservation must indicate that human life is meaningful.[/b]

How completely inane.

That proves nothing about "meaning". It proves that he's evolved to prefer life to death.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==========================

Well, I usually ask what people mean by “meaning”, first.

================================


I did spend some time in a realm like that. Honestly. It was during a time I was reading Norman O Brown and Alan Watts (Zen Buddhist). I thought long and hard about the issue of meaninglessness.

Then one day, I ...[text shortened]... w why I was here. I gathered that self preservation must indicate that human life is meaningful.[/b]

The meaning of life is what you take from it not a preconceived purpose.

If you think it is your willingness to die for others that gives your life meaning then this might outweigh your natural instincts of self-preservation.

Self-preservation is an instinct which keeps us alive long enough to figure out what the hell we're doing here. If you believe in Eternal life then the choices you make in this life are meaningless. As long as you ask forgiveness from god you might as well stay at home or go die in a gutter. He judges all equally who ask forgiveness for their sins or so some christians would have me believe.

If you don't believe in Eternal life then the choices you make in this one do matter, because thats all you have.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
How completely inane.

That proves nothing about "meaning". It proves that he's evolved to prefer life to death.

I thought his point was a good one, your own explanation of he
preferred life over death shows it too. Meaning or worth only comes
within life outside of life there is nothing but existence without value
or meaning. You suggesting that came because he evolved is just
your belief.
Kelly

==========================
Self-preservation is an instinct which keeps us alive long enough to figure out what the hell we're doing here.
================================

That is all I was saying really about the scene of the man hurrying across the street. You see various forms of Buddhism are very influencial into convincing you that so much of life is an illusion.

All I was saying was that noticing the practical respone of self preservation shook me out of that mode of considering self and the world as illusionary or meaningless.

==========================
If you believe in Eternal life then the choices you make in this life are meaningless.
================================

I don't see why that should be unless your concept of "eternal life" is simply and endless life. I think the quality of eternal life is an important component to the phrase eternal life. And I don't see it as something to be enjoyed only in the future. Rather in traffic, in the office, in the bathroom, in the bedroom, "eternal life" is a high quality of life which I choose to enjoy.

Of course endlessness is another aspect of eternal life. But there is no reason why such a gift makes choices of today not relevant.

==================================
As long as you ask forgiveness from god you might as well stay at home or go die in a gutter.
==================================


I have no idea why you would feel that way.

Forgiveness is remedial. It allows God to put me back on the right track to the fulfillment of His eternal purpose. Forgiveness is not the only end in itself. Forgiveness removes the obstacle standing in the way for us to be reconciled to God and participate in the eternal purpose of God.

================================
He judges all equally who ask forgiveness for their sins or so some christians would have me believe.
=============================

There is not enough detail here for me to comment.

=======================================
If you don't believe in Eternal life then the choices you make in this one do matter, because thats all you have.
===================================


Your previous assumption I didn't go along with. So this followup I would not embrace either.

In fact if you are just going to supposedly melt peacefully and insignificantly into dust, an Epicurean "Eat Drink and be happy, for tomorrow we die" is pretty much what you're left with.

I found that to be eventually dreadfully empty.

I don't see why that should be unless your concept of "eternal life" is simply and endless life. I think the quality of eternal life is an important component to the phrase eternal life. And I don't see it as something to be enjoyed only in the future. Rather in traffic, in the office, in the bathroom, in the bedroom, "eternal life" is a high quality of life which I choose to enjoy.

Of course endlessness is another aspect of eternal life. But there is no reason why such a gift makes choices of today not relevant.

I wouldn't have thought eternal life would have had "qualities", is it harder for some people than others? Do you believe maybe that you live your life over again and again, and therefore the choices that you make you will have to do again and again? Is this what you mean?

Forgiveness is remedial. It allows God to put me back on the right track to the fulfillment of His eternal purpose. Forgiveness is not the only end in itself. Forgiveness removes the obstacle standing in the way for us to be reconciled to God and participate in the eternal purpose of God.

But the main reason to ask for forgiveness is to receive eternal life. Thats what it's all for to go to heaven right? I'm saying as long as this is achieved it doesn't matter what happens in the few short years that you're here. You see I believe these years are all I've got (and I'm still wasting them to some extent).

There is not enough detail here for me to comment.

Just the point that if you're forgiven I presumed evryone would be forgiven equally. Thats what I've been told before anyway.


In fact if you are just going to supposedly melt peacefully and insignificantly into dust, an Epicurean "Eat Drink and be happy, for tomorrow we die" is pretty much what you're left with. I found that to be eventually dreadfully empty.

I find it thrilling. This is the only chance you'll have to make a difference. Look at all this stuff to do. Isn't it amazing that I was born at all! All these thousands of years of evolution, the earth has been around, what, 13 billion years? And one day, all the stuff comes together to make me. What? Some Guy who knows everything but that we can't see did it? What a Swizz! Either he made alot of stuff suck or purpose on he was really bad at his job.

======================================
I wouldn't have thought eternal life would have had "qualities", is it harder for some people than others?
====================================

The eternal life is a Person.

To have the eternal life is to be in a union and mingling with that Divine Person.

www.godseconomy.org

www.regenerated.net



=================================
Do you believe maybe that you live your life over again and again, and therefore the choices that you make you will have to do again and again? Is this what you mean?
====================================


Above I said that this eternal life is a Person.

"I am the resurrection and the life ..." (John 11:25)

The divine and eternal life which God offers is the very Person of Christ the embodiment of the Triune God. That is why John writes - "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4)

I am not just quoting verses for the sake of quoting verses. Christ said that He is the life of God. And the apostles writes that in Him (in Christ the living Word of God) was the divine life.

The divine and eternal life is in the realm and sphere of this living Person Jesus. He is the embodiment of the Triune God as life for our enjoyment and His expression. When Paul writes about the vast dimensions of Christ's unlimitedness he speaks of it as the very dimensions of the universe - infinite, endless, without limitation . The apostle prayed for the Christians that they would be spiritually strong to know such limitless dimensions of the riches of Christ -

" That ... you ... may be full of strength to apprehend with all saints what the breadth and length and height and depth are and to know the knowledge -surpassing love of Christ" (Eph. 3:18,19)

This means that the experience of Christ is as large in scope as the dimensions of the universe. How high is the height? How long is the length? How deep ios the depth? And how broad is the breadth? These are open ended discriptions meant to convey that the experience of Christ's riches are limitless.

Therefore if I lived 100 life times over again there would be new and deeper ways for me to enjoy living Christ. Whatever circumstances presented themselves to me and whatever changing environments were my lot, Christ is limitless in His supply of grace and in His unsearchable riches.

I can never exhaust Him. And it will require eternity for me to enjoy Him. His dimensions are like the very infinite dimensions of the universe - "what the breadth and length and height and depth are and to know the knowledge surpassing love of Christ".

I have "spent" Christ in this life. I could have "spent" Him much more. Had I to live again I could spend more and more of His rich supply of grace.



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But the main reason to ask for forgiveness is to receive eternal life.
==================

Different people have different kinds of experiences with Christ.

Some came to Him because of a thirst for life. Latter they had a deeper appreciation for the power of His redemption to remove the record of their sins from before God.

In the gospel of John the writer makes a point to show that all the nine or so cases of people being saved by Jesus were varied. He did not come to everyone in exactly the same way.

Nicodemus was a good man who thought he needed better teaching. He needed to be born again. This is chapter 3.

Following this is a woman who had five husbands and was living with a man. She was sinful because she was just so thirsty for enjoyment. This is chapter 4.

Chapter 5 contains a man who is religious but just weak. He is too weak to even take advantage of religion. When he tries to get down to the miraculous waters to be cured, someone else who is stronger than he steps down before him. He is weak and Christ comes to him to be his strength to take up his mat, forget about the religious water, and walk home healed.

Each chapter presents a different case. Each chapter is an instance of Christ coming as the eternal life to turn man's death into life.


========================

Thats what it's all for to go to heaven right?

====================

It is good to read the New Testament for yourself in prayer, with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

After one week of reading, underline the things which seem to jump off the page and impress you. In this way you can see perhaps how the Holy Spirit is speaking to you expressly and personally.

Not everyone who meets Jesus comes preoccupied with heaven.


Yes, I did write to you some things about forgiveness. I do not want you to think that there are not other avenues by which the Holy Spirit presents Christ to a truly seeking person.

=======================
I'm saying as long as this is achieved it doesn't matter what happens in the few short years that you're here. You see I believe these years are all I've got (and I'm still wasting them to some extent).
========================


The one who does the will of God abides forever.

" ... all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the vainglory of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and its lust, but he who does the will of God abides forever." (See 1 John 2:16,17)

I am here to be filled with Christ and mingled with God in life and in nature for the building up of the eternal city New Jerusalem - the universal mingling of God and man.

I am turning myself over to Christ's saturation process for being builded up into His mystical body and preparation for the New Jerusalem - the city of God.

www.regenerated.net

www.godseconomy.org