Originally posted by stellspalfieI told you already. God may not need to know what we are thinking all the time, so He has the ability to choose. God does not have to hear our prayers, if He does not want to. We can't force God to know everything, just because we think He should. God has free will just as much as we have free will. God may not want to remember our sins, if we have repented of them.
how does god know only what he needs to know? without knowing the things he doesnt need to know?
The Instructor
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Originally posted by RJHindsright, your not getting this, ill try a different method.
I told you already. God may not need to know what we are thinking all the time, so He has the ability to choose. God does not have to hear our prayers, if He does not want to. We can't force God to know everything, just because we think He should. God has free will just as much as we have free will. God may not want to remember our sins, if we have repented of them.
The Instructor
there are ten people in a room, some are think nice things some are thinking terrible things that could hurt millions of people. how does god decide who's mind to read without reading all of them?
Originally posted by KellyJayHi Kelly. To cover everything from sea-level to past the peak of the highest mountain you need an 8km thick layer of water. This corresponds to 4 Billion cubic Kilometres of water. It would weigh 4 petatonnes. This would have major repercussions for the moons orbit, never mind the question of where did all the water come from and where did it go. There is no way this can be fitted to the laws of physics.
At the beginning of time in scripture the earth was covered with water, you
change the land mass shape the water can be completely over it. The water
came from under and over during the flood, if you also add the fact that
land is moving too, it seems very easy to see how it could happen, not to
difficult at all, nothing has to move into space, flatten it out the water is on
top, what is hard about that?
Kelly
Further in the text, Noah sends a dove which returns with a twig from an olive tree. How did the olive tree survive 5 months of being submerged under 8km of water?
You either have to abandon your interpretation of a world wide flood, or just say that the normal rules of physics didn't apply for the duration of the flood. But you can't consistently retain a scientific theory of the biblical flood and the literal truth of the bible.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtAnd of course we already know which version they will reject.
Hi Kelly. To cover everything from sea-level to past the peak of the highest mountain you need an 8km thick layer of water. This corresponds to [b]4 Billion cubic Kilometres of water. It would weigh 4 petatonnes. This would have major repercussions for the moons orbit, never mind the question of where did all the water come from and where did it ...[text shortened]... sistently retain a scientific theory of the biblical flood and the literal truth of the bible.[/b]
Originally posted by DeepThoughtSo the highest mountain TODAY during a time before, during, and right
Hi Kelly. To cover everything from sea-level to past the peak of the highest mountain you need an 8km thick layer of water. This corresponds to [b]4 Billion cubic Kilometres of water. It would weigh 4 petatonnes. This would have major repercussions for the moons orbit, never mind the question of where did all the water come from and where did it ...[text shortened]... sistently retain a scientific theory of the biblical flood and the literal truth of the bible.[/b]
after the flood can be different. We also were talking about the earth being
changed as the waters from below came up and came down at the same
time. If the earth separated as it was being flooded the highest mountain
could be lowered greatly as earth parted. There isn't much land above the
water compared to what is below it, so you flatten out the earth above the
water it will be will covered.
I'm not sure what is required about plant life and how long each can go
without dying off, from seeds to plants without God having to do anything
supernaturally.
Kelly
Originally posted by stellspalfiePerhaps God has something like women's intuition.
right, your not getting this, ill try a different method.
there are ten people in a room, some are think nice things some are thinking terrible things that could hurt millions of people. how does god decide who's mind to read without reading all of them?
The Instructor
1 edit
Originally posted by DeepThoughtApparently you missed this part of my earlier post:
Hi Kelly. To cover everything from sea-level to past the peak of the highest mountain you need an 8km thick layer of water. This corresponds to [b]4 Billion cubic Kilometres of water. It would weigh 4 petatonnes. This would have major repercussions for the moons orbit, never mind the question of where did all the water come from and where did it sistently retain a scientific theory of the biblical flood and the literal truth of the bible.[/b]
The waters were standing above the mountains.
At Your rebuke they fled,
At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away.
The mountains rose; the valleys sank down
To the place which You established for them.
You set a boundary that they may not pass over,
So that they will not return to cover the earth.
(Psalm 104:6-9 NASB)
This must refer to the worldwide flood of Noah's day and it says the mountains rose higher than they were before and the valleys sank allowing the waters to find a place that they (the waters) would no longer be able to cover the whole earth again.
See God has already revealed to us what you are saying. A flood that will cover the entire earth will no longer happen, because the valleys are lower and the mountains are higher than they were at the time of Noah's flood.
The Instructor
Originally posted by KellyJayYou've still got mountains growing too quickly, this is not what is observed. If the biblical stories are to be true then you need the laws of physics to be suspended during miraculous events.
So the highest mountain TODAY during a time before, during, and right
after the flood can be different. We also were talking about the earth being
changed as the waters from below came up and came down at the same
time. If the earth separated as it was being flooded the highest mountain
could be lowered greatly as earth parted. There isn't much land abo ...[text shortened]... hout dying off, from seeds to plants without God having to do anything
supernaturally.
Kelly
Terrestrial plants don't do much better than land animals when drowned, they'll recover after longer submersions but they will definitely die if submerged for five months. You need normal rules to be suspended for this event to work.
Why do you insist on the laws of physics still working during a major divine intervention?
1 edit
Originally posted by DeepThoughtWe Christians believe in a God of miracles, like the creation of the heavens and the earth and all the life forms on earth with the DNA programming to reproduce after their own kind.
You've still got mountains growing too quickly, this is not what is observed. If the biblical stories are to be true then you need the laws of physics to be suspended during miraculous events.
Terrestrial plants don't do much better than land animals when drowned, they'll recover after longer submersions but they will definitely die if submerged for ...[text shortened]...
Why do you insist on the laws of physics still working during a major divine intervention?
Apparently you believe in miracles too, if you think a big bang came out of nothing and created the universe and even more miracles had to occur that changed rocks into living things that programmed themselves to reproduce.
The instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsTalk about the classic strawman, totally ignoring his statement about slow moving continents. Nice try but no cigar. You cannot find scientific evidence for fast moving mountains. The amount of energy to do that would liquify and just leave a molten mass flowing around like a giant volcano. That would also kill every animal and plant on that mountain.
We Christians believe in a God of miracles, like the creation of the heavens and the earth and all the life forms on earth with the DNA programming to reproduce after their own kind.
Apparently you believe in miracles too, if you think a big bang came out of nothing and created the universe and even more miracles had to occur that changed rocks into living things that programmed themselves to reproduce.
The instructor
The flood story is totally busted. NEXT.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtGod is flooding the earth, what needs to be said beyond that?
You've still got mountains growing too quickly, this is not what is observed. If the biblical stories are to be true then you need the laws of physics to be suspended during miraculous events.
Terrestrial plants don't do much better than land animals when drowned, they'll recover after longer submersions but they will definitely die if submerged for ...[text shortened]...
Why do you insist on the laws of physics still working during a major divine intervention?
It is a supernatural event! You want to look for all the natural ways it could
have happen, when you need to be looking at do we see things that show
it did, the HOW is God.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIf the formation of the earth panned out the way you said it did, why then, is there not a single shred of scientific evidence to support your version of events? I mean, humanity has 150yrs of evidence from a multitude of scientific disciplines yet none of them, I'll repeat that for the drama, none of them support your version. How come we have got it all so badly wrong in your view? How come none of the evidence supports your version of events?
God is flooding the earth, what needs to be said beyond that?
It is a supernatural event! You want to look for all the natural ways it could
have happen, when you need to be looking at do we see things that show
it did, the HOW is God.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayIs your God all-powerful? Assuming yes then we get on to the question of whether your God is hidden from Science. No perfect experiment can be constructed as an all powerful God can force a false negative. Suppose we construct an experiment so a false positive is impossible, this would be an ideal experiment as we cannot hope to produce an experiment to rule out false negatives. False positives are only a problem if God doesn't exist, as if God exists then it's not a false positive. So the only time we can prove God exists and be correct is if we are allowed to. This must apply to observations as well. The archaeological data we have indicates dates that precede your date for creation, so either God doesn't exist, God does exist and the world is old or the world is young but God wants it to appear to science that the world is old. Since one of these is the case science may as well get on with it and take its results at face value.
God is flooding the earth, what needs to be said beyond that?
It is a supernatural event! You want to look for all the natural ways it could
have happen, when you need to be looking at do we see things that show
it did, the HOW is God.
Kelly
Originally posted by Proper KnobWhat would you think you'd see, fossils on mountain tops of sea creatures?
If the formation of the earth panned out the way you said it did, why then, is there not a single shred of scientific evidence to support your version of events? I mean, humanity has 150yrs of evidence from a multitude of scientific disciplines yet none of them, I'll repeat that for the drama, none of them support your version. How come we have got it all so badly wrong in your view? How come none of the evidence supports your version of events?
Kelly
Originally posted by DeepThoughtScience cannot prove God, it has built in blinders for such a thing.
Is your God all-powerful? Assuming yes then we get on to the is your God hidden from Science? No perfect experiment can be constructed as an all powerful God can force a false negative. Suppose we construct an experiment so a false positive is impossible, this would be an ideal experiment as we cannot hope to produce an experiment to rule out false ne ...[text shortened]... e of these is the case science may as well get on with it and take its results at face value.
Kelly