Separation of church and state

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I see a stylistic difference between the two - I'm not sure I see that much of a substantial difference.

Let me explain. Both in this analogy and the case of the pastor you seem to be more concerned with the fact that they are rude/offensive than with the question of whether they are correct and whether their intentions are right. A polite falsehoo ...[text shortened]... here? As a Christian pastor, which person displays more charity and concern for his neighbour?

Person C had a heart attack and lived a not so healthy life. However, he found a new lease on life by changing his diet and exercising regularly. The following year he had a brain aneurysm and died.

Person D had a heart attack and lived a not so healthy life. He continued to live a not so healthy life afterwards and lived to be 92.

How far can we push this analogy?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
In the context of what we've been talking about, would you say he qualified as a fanatic?

You know I think you could probably write a book to address your question. There are many great books out there about addictions and spirituality. The issues with addictions and spirituality are best understood from personal experience and devotion.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Mere denial, delusion, control etc. does not addiction make. Indeed, the last of these (control) is precisely what is absent in addiction.

In the example you've given, the only "parallel" I see is that he appears to have moved from one extreme to the other. Even there, there is a significant difference in terms of volition.

No, denial, delusion and the illusion of control do not an addiction make—but they seem to be almost universally present. They support the continuance of the addictive behavior. In fact, one could say that the first five steps of AA and similar 12-step programs address these very issues, and the later steps (along with continued sponsor-counseling) work to keep one from slipping back into them.

Addictions themselves can be both physiological and/or psychological. Many people engage in addictive behavior, at least initially, precisely because they feel their lives are out of control, and the addiction gives them a (false) sense of control and security; or their lives seem empty, and the addiction gives them a sense of fulfillment.

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BTW, I dispute that love is an addiction—one can have powerful feelings for a person, but if they are addicted to them, they can’t really love them; they must rely on them to satisfy the addiction. If the other person fails that, “love” can turn into rejection and even hatred pretty quickly. I have known addicts who supported each other’s addiction for decades—but the intimacy was ultimately destructive.

To paraphrase a definition of love that I read years ago (by M. Scott Peck): Love is the willingness to extend oneself (not diminish oneself) for the well-being of the other. Two people living that out with passionate caring and concern for one another—and a continuing, unafraid intimacy—is a beautiful thing.

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I don’t know how familiar you are with addictions and 12-steps. If you’re not very familiar, and if you want to get a good handle on addiction (and the spiritual side of recovery), I’d suggest hanging out with people who have matured in AA or another 12-step program, if you haven’t already. I’d also suggest reading AA’s “Big Book” (entitled simply Alcoholics Anonymous).

Originally posted by kirksey957
You know I think you could probably write a book to address your question. There are many great books out there about addictions and spirituality. The issues with addictions and spirituality are best understood from personal experience and devotion.

So tell us, are you addicted to Christ?

Originally posted by whodey
So tell us, are you addicted to Christ?

You know I almost thought about responding to this, but I decided I was worth a damn.

Originally posted by whodey
So tell us, are you addicted to Christ?

Thus reminds me of something I heard on the television a few months ago, I think it was an advertisement for a new sitcom. It went as follows:


"I'm in love with a man! Huh? Thats right! I'm in love with a man, a man called God! Does that make me gay? Am I gay for God? ...You bet I am!"

Well, I thought it was funny.

TheSkipper

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Who would you say is the fanatic here? As a Christian pastor, which person displays more charity and concern for his neighbour?

Neither is a fanatic in the sense that I use the word, "a person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause". Fanatics are unbalanced. David Koresh not Jesus.

[Latin fanaticus, inspired by orgiastic rites, pertaining to a temple, from fanum, temple.]

If you pick a truth and follow it blindly. It becomes a falsehood, and you a fanatic. — Unknown.