Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Jan '19 02:041 edit
    To what extent was the "Sermon On The Mount" 'unJewish' or anti-Jewish or a threat to ~ or incompatible with ~ Judaism as it was practised at the time Jesus lived? How radical and iconoclastic were these moral teachings in the context of their time? Or would the "Sermon On The Mount" have been, instead, uncontroversial?
  2. Stargazing
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    24 Jan '19 05:071 edit
    That sermon isn’t really a “sermon”, there is no scripture references. It is simply Jesus telling the Jews what behaviours are acceptable by God and it would have been hugely inflammatory to the Jewish leaders who’s authority stemmed from enforcing religious law.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '19 05:09
    Good grief, thank the metaphorical heavens for that. I thought my query was destined to be a flower wasted on the desert air.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    24 Jan '19 09:013 edits
    @divegeester

    That sermon isn’t really a “sermon”, there is no scripture references.


    No scripture references?

    "You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you ...." (Matt. 5:38)


    Jesus was referring to Exo. 21:24, Lev. 24:20, and Deut. 19:21

    "You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you ..." (v.43)


    Jesus was referring to Lev. 19:18 and Psalm 41:10-11
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '19 09:12
    @sonship

    I'd be interested in your answer to the OP question.
  6. Stargazing
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    24 Jan '19 11:54
    @sonship said
    @divegeester

    That sermon isn’t really a “sermon”, there is no scripture references.


    No scripture references?

    "You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you ...." (Matt. 5:38)


    Jesus was referring to Exo. 21:24, Lev. 24:20, and Deut. 19:21

    "You have heard that it w ...[text shortened]... But I say to you ..." (v.43)


    Jesus was referring to Lev. 19:18 and Psalm 41:10-11
    Yes I know that sonship.

    After each of those he say "BUT....I say you..." and gives an alternate response with no scripture references.

    I trust you learned something from this instruction.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '19 11:57
    Jesus did not cite scripture - specific verses - from the Torah but he did refer to the teaching, right? Was it already called the Torah back then? When was that canon defined and delimited?
  8. Standard membersonship
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    24 Jan '19 15:432 edits
    @FMF

    When Jesus said that they had heard that it was said, the experts in Scripture knew where He was referring to.

    Certainly the five books of Moses were the Hebrew canon by that time. When all the books were recognized I am not sure without consultation. Possibly the recognition of inspiration of Old Testament books was complete or near complete at that time.

    Chapter number and verse numbers I don't think were utilized then.

    Twelve years you say ?
    Twelve YEARS is a long time.
    Want to have a chess game?
  9. Standard membersonship
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    24 Jan '19 15:472 edits
    @divegeester

    After each of those he say "BUT....I say you..." and gives an alternate response with no scripture references.

    I trust you learned something from this instruction.


    I don't think the Scriptures were divided up into chapter numbers and verse numbers at that time.

    Reference to the prophet or writer was given. Or Jesus just said it was written (in Scripture) which He said also cannot be broken.

    The scribes. lawyers, and priests knew where to find it.
  10. Standard membersonship
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    24 Jan '19 15:561 edit
    @FMF

    I'd be interested in your answer to the OP question.


    I recall three questions. And you'd be interested in my answers?

    I only would say that many of the things Jesus said in terms of rebuke in the "Sermon on the Mount" had corresponding tone and equivalence in the Old Testament prophets.

    This is why some of the people thought He was a prophet of old come back from the dead. To some He sounded like Jeremiah. To others He sounded like on or two of the other minor prophets.

    The God of the Jewish faith rebuking the religious nation was nothing new. Amos, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel, etc. etc all had had messages from God with pointed rebukes of the theocratic nation.

    Then again some things He said, I think may have been new.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '19 23:15
    @sonship said
    @divegeester

    After each of those he say "BUT....I say you..." and gives an alternate response with no scripture references.

    I trust you learned something from this instruction.


    I don't think the Scriptures were divided up into chapter numbers and verse numbers at that time.

    Reference to the prophet or writer was given. Or Jesus just said it was ...[text shortened]... e) which He said also cannot be broken.

    The scribes. lawyers, and priests knew where to find it.
    There were no scriptural references for the 'new' things he was saying.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Jan '19 01:101 edit
    @sonship said
    Want to have a chess game?
    No thanks. If you want to tell me that my ideas are like "eating faeces" or "spreading germs" or that I have the "nature" of "unclean" animals or insects, or that you would rather die than have a mind like mine, just do it here in public where everyone can read it.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    25 Jan '19 04:323 edits
    @FMF

    No thanks. If you want to tell me that my ideas are like "eating faeces" or "spreading germs" or that I have the "nature" of "unclean" animals or insects, or that you would rather die than have a mind like mine, just do it here in public where everyone can read it.


    It has nothing to do with what I want to tell you in public or in private.

    Yes, in comparison to Christ anything you hold up as being of greater value is like dung in comparison IMO.
    I tell you right here for the world to see.

    Paul said all that he held in high esteem before He discovered Christ he counted as dung in comparison.
    And I think that is true of anything you or I could compare to the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus.

    " But what things were gains to me, these I have counted as loss on account of Christ.

    But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ." (Phil. 3:7,8)


    In comparison to Christ I therefore count what you could hold up as superior to be as refuse IN COMPARISON to Christ. Relative to the value of Christ I count what you offer us as:

    refuse RcV
    rubbish NASB
    dung KJV, CSB,
    garbage CEV, GNT, NIV
    filth HCSB
    dung heap Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    refuse new Heart English Bible
    dung New Jubilee Bible 1977
    nothing but dung World English Bible
    filth Darby New Translation
    everything as worthless GOD's word @Translation
    filth Holman Christian Standard Bible

    So the stuff you are peddling in comparison to Christ is like eating dung. And a synonym for dung is "manure, muck, animal excrement" (see https://www.google.com/search?q=dung&oq=dung+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2519j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 )

    dung noun
    \ ˈdəŋ \
    Definition of dung (Entry 1 of 2)
    1 : the feces of an animal : MANURE
    2 : something repulsive


    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dung [my bolding]

    What you offer us instead of Jesus Christ in comparison to Christ is like the offering of FECES.

    I wasn't shy to tell you before. What makes you think I am reticent to tell you again here in public?

    What you hype up here in comparison to the excellent knowledge of the Son of God is crap.
    And I said you were full of it - full of crap - didn't I ?

    And yes, if I woke up with the kind of deceived mind that you boast in, it would be better for me to be dead then in such darkness.

    What you haven't told any of us now is the insulting things YOU write about my beliefs. (about over a decade now?)
    Oh no! You give the impression I just came out of the blue and unprovoked insulted you for no apparent reason.

    It was PUSH BACK folks. at the end of tolerating much insulting remarks from FMF (Mr. Innocent here).

    Now those reading can understand that PROVOKED with your continual insults to my faith I finally leveled with you and said in comparison to Jesus Christ my Lord, what you are filled with and offer as a superior product is dung, refuse, feces, crap.

    Do we understand each other now ?
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Jan '19 04:40
    @sonship said
    @FMF

    No thanks. If you want to tell me that my ideas are like "eating faeces" or "spreading germs" or that I have the "nature" of "unclean" animals or insects, or that you would rather die than have a mind like mine, just do it here in public where everyone can read it.


    It has nothing to do with what I want to tell you in public or in private.

    Y ...[text shortened]... and offer as a superior product is dung, refuse, feces, crap.

    Do we understand each other now ?
    I don't want a game of chess, sonship.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Jan '19 04:461 edit
    @sonship said
    What you haven't told any of us now is the insulting things YOU write about my beliefs. (about over a decade now?)
    I have disagreed with your beliefs and I have scrutinized them, but I have never called yours - or anyone's - ideas "faeces" or "germs" or likened you or any other poster to cockroaches or dogs, not once in over a decade.
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