1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    21 Dec '08 18:251 edit
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality

    As a Christian I ask my fellow Christians to open their minds to the issues around sexuality.

    If a Christian was an intersex child then I presume that you would accept the fact that this person might be confused about their sexuality and that there was a very good biological reason for that confusion. You would also have to accept that it would be cruel and perverse to label such a sexuality as "sin" given the fact that such a sexuality stems from foetal development.

    Given that we already have strong evidence that sexuality and sexual orientation is shaped in the womb at an early stage in the foetus' brain , it seems only a matter of time that the link between early foetal development and homosexuality is proven. We already know that there is a link between the relative length of a man's index finger and his level of femininity/ masculinity. What will this mean for right wing Christians?

    Science is telling us that sexuality and orientation is a many faceted and complex , messy area that has much more to do with biology than we ever previously thought. The idea that our sexual identity is created largely by our socialization is looking very flimsy.

    Which Christians here are prepared to open their minds to the uncomfortable truth about sexuality?
  2. tinyurl.com/ywohm
    Joined
    01 May '07
    Moves
    27860
    21 Dec '08 18:33
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality

    As a Christian I ask my fellow Christians to open their minds to the issues around sexuality.

    If a Christian was an intersex child then I presume that you would accept the fact that this person might be confused about their sexuality and that there was a very good biological reason for that confusion. ...[text shortened]... Christians here are prepared to open their minds to the uncomfortable truth about sexuality?
    Dude, huge numbers of Christians already believe that homosexuality is an inborn trait as is heterosexuality. There is no discomfort there.

    But where did you get the finger thing?
  3. Joined
    13 Oct '05
    Moves
    12505
    21 Dec '08 18:431 edit
    What will this mean for right wing Christians?
    The same as it will mean for all Christians, either that God is imperfect, or God accepts sexual diversity as part of his planned creation.

    Who is uncomfortable about this? If you are, you really need to ask yourself why?
  4. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    21 Dec '08 19:01
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    Dude, huge numbers of Christians already believe that homosexuality is an inborn trait as is heterosexuality. There is no discomfort there.

    But where did you get the finger thing?
    But huge numbers of Christians don't seem to understand the implications of this for their theology.

    The finger thing comes from research. It's the realtive length of your index finger compared to your ring finger. The greater the ratio then it's likely you were given more testosterone in the womb. Studies showed that more typical male attributes were associated with this and I think there's some evidence that gay men are more likely to have a smaller ratio.
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    21 Dec '08 19:03
    Originally posted by twiceaknight
    The same as it will mean for all Christians, either that God is imperfect, or God accepts sexual diversity as part of his planned creation.

    Who is uncomfortable about this? If you are, you really need to ask yourself why?
    If only it were so....

    I'm not uncomfortable about this . I happen to be happily heterosexual. You seem to be denying there is any problem in Christendom about this issue - there patently is.
  6. tinyurl.com/ywohm
    Joined
    01 May '07
    Moves
    27860
    21 Dec '08 19:50
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    But huge numbers of Christians don't seem to understand the implications of this for their theology.

    The finger thing comes from research. It's the realtive length of your index finger compared to your ring finger. The greater the ratio then it's likely you were given more testosterone in the womb. Studies showed that more typical male attributes w ...[text shortened]... this and I think there's some evidence that gay men are more likely to have a smaller ratio.
    So tell me what it is that only you know and no one else apparently does? And also why you limit this to Christianity. Only right-wing Christians have issues with sexual identity and the rest of the world is fine?
  7. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    21 Dec '08 20:142 edits
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality

    As a Christian I ask my fellow Christians to open their minds to the issues around sexuality.

    If a Christian was an intersex child then I presume that you would accept the fact that this person might be confused about their sexuality and that there was a very good biological reason for that confusion. Christians here are prepared to open their minds to the uncomfortable truth about sexuality?
    So if it were scientifically proven that people had a predisposition to be "gay", then engaging in homosexual activity is "OK"? How about a man or woman with a veracious libido who cannot seem to only stay with one partner or how about the bisexual who is attracted to both sexes and feels the need to satisfy their cravings? Are these types of predispositions a green light for engaging in such behavior Biblically? After all, we see animals in the animal kingdom who are promiscuous, so it must be natural and OK for us as well, right?

    I will simply cut to the chase, the Christian has two routes to go here if willing to endorse sexual behavior that the Bible condemns or warns against. The first route to go is interpretation. You interpret the writings in both the Old and New Testament saying that engaging in homosexual behavior is an abomination in such a way that it is OK us to engage in it today or you say that such teachings were not inspired by God altogether. What say you?.
  8. Joined
    13 Oct '05
    Moves
    12505
    21 Dec '08 20:25
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    If only it were so....

    I'm not uncomfortable about this . I happen to be happily heterosexual. You seem to be denying there is any problem in Christendom about this issue - there patently is.
    I am trying to illustrate one of the problems about the issue. i have no interest in your sexuality.
  9. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    21 Dec '08 20:40
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    So tell me what it is that only you know and no one else apparently does? And also why you limit this to Christianity. Only right-wing Christians have issues with sexual identity and the rest of the world is fine?
    I'm just asking questions here. Why the attack? It seems obvious that there is an on-going debate on this issue within Christianity about whether we can accept homosexuality - it's a debate that in the civilsed world has already taken place and laws are in place to make sure it is accepted.
  10. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    21 Dec '08 20:41
    Originally posted by twiceaknight
    I am trying to illustrate one of the problems about the issue. i have no interest in your sexuality.
    and what is that problem?
  11. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    21 Dec '08 21:01
    Originally posted by whodey
    So if it were scientifically proven that people had a predisposition to be "gay", then engaging in homosexual activity is "OK"? How about a man or woman with a veracious libido who cannot seem to only stay with one partner or how about the bisexual who is attracted to both sexes and feels the need to satisfy their cravings? Are these types of predisposition ...[text shortened]... it today or you say that such teachings were not inspired by God altogether. What say you?.
    First of all you link homoseuxality with promiscuity , which is a tenous link. The issue of promiscuity is a separate issue. Promiscuity is about loyalty versus shallow relationships. The issue of maintaining that sex should take place in meaningful relationships applies to all forms of sexuality. Homosexuals are just as capable of loyal meaningful relationships as heterosexuals and heterosexuals are just as capable of promiscuity.

    If it were scientifically proven that the brain forms homosexual tendencies in the womb that that would mean that homosexuals are hardwired for sexual attraction to the same sex just as you are hardwired to be attracted to the opposite sex. This of course has massive implications. Do you believe that you could go to a healing conference and be healed of your heterosexuality? Could you have been socialised into becoming gay? All these are assumptions of many Christians - that being gay is a social , cultural , behavioural issue and can be "healed". Science is telling us this is just not true.

    Like me , you probably believe that your brain is hotwired for the opposite sex. But would you accept that it's the same principle for a gay man?

    As for the Bible , I can only assume that it's Ok for two hermaphrodites to have sex because it seems to say nothing about it. So we can conclude that if a person is born with both female and male genitalia (or indistinct) he/she can have sex with either sex? But if someone's brain causes them to be attracted to the same sex then it's a "sin"? How does this work?

    I think there's stuff in the Bible that has nothing to do with God and everything to do with the men who wrote it. There's one guarantee , the people who wrote the "abomination" stuff knew a heck of a lot less than we know now about human sexuality.
  12. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86320
    21 Dec '08 21:501 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality

    Are Christians here are prepared to open their minds to the uncomfortable truth about sexuality?
    .....If you are prepared to open your heart to the "uncomfortable" truth in the bible my fellow christian? For all else outside of this truth there is repentance and God's grace, as there thankfully is for all of us!
  13. Illinois
    Joined
    20 Mar '07
    Moves
    6266
    21 Dec '08 22:14
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality

    As a Christian I ask my fellow Christians to open their minds to the issues around sexuality.

    If a Christian was an intersex child then I presume that you would accept the fact that this person might be confused about their sexuality and that there was a very good biological reason for that confusion. ...[text shortened]... Christians here are prepared to open their minds to the uncomfortable truth about sexuality?
    I'm with you on this 100%, KM.
  14. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    21 Dec '08 23:07
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    First of all you link homoseuxality with promiscuity , which is a tenous link. The issue of promiscuity is a separate issue. Promiscuity is about loyalty versus shallow relationships. The issue of maintaining that sex should take place in meaningful relationships applies to all forms of sexuality. Homosexuals are just as capable of loyal meaningful rel ...[text shortened]... abomination" stuff knew a heck of a lot less than we know now about human sexuality.
    A tenuous link? I simply wrote about two forms of sexual practices that are looked at in a dim view Biblically. However, what you have done is reinterpret the spirit in which they were given. For example, why make ANY sexual laws at all? After all, what business is it of any one elses who you share your bed with? From your interpretation, you view the laws as defending the principle that promiscuity forms shallow relationships and a violation of loyalty within relationships and God frowns upon this. However, do realize that not everyone would agree with this synopsis. In fact, I am sure there are those who would argue that sharing their bed with multiple partners has enhanced their relationship and is preferable to going behind each others back verses being up front with how their sex drives were leading them to cheat.

    Having said that, I am not chastising you for extrapolating about the law. For example, Christ was accused of breaking the Sabbath by healing on the Sabbath. He then extrapolated about the law saying that he may have broken the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law which was given in love. However, that would be a far cry for Christ to then go around saying that no one need observe the Sabbath which he NEVER did.

    Having said that, I have noticed that people seem to have a natural tendency to hear only what they want to hear. For example, Christ only went into great depth about sexual practices in terms of marriage/divorce. In fact, he took a hard line against divorce as well as re-marring after getting divorce. Of course, if one were to look at the church today, you would hardly even notice he made such a stand. In fact, I have heard that the divorce rates in the church are somewhat worse than outside the church. Now am I going to stand in judgment over someone who has gotten remarried after getting divorced? No. However, neither am I going to go around telling people that divorce is a "good" thing and condoned by a God that at one times seems to have condemned it.
  15. weedhopper
    Joined
    25 Jul '07
    Moves
    8061
    21 Dec '08 23:39
    The Christians have no problem with science that may prove homosexuality to be genetic. It would still be a sin to practice it, just as it is a sin to drink to excess even if you are genetically predisposed to do so. No problem here--Christendom is cool with science, God's in His heaven, and all's right with the world. 😏
Back to Top