1. Joined
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    05 Feb '07 01:341 edit
    If a sheep wounders off and becomes lost or gets hurt or killed. Is it the sheeps fualt or the shepherd in charge of the sheep?
  2. Joined
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    05 Feb '07 03:33
    Originally posted by Kevin Mcfarland
    If a sheep wounders off and becomes lost or gets hurt or killed. Is it the sheeps fualt or the shepherd in charge of the sheep?
    I'm assuming that you are referring to Christ as the Shepherd and Christians as His flock..?

    The sheep have a free will to wander, but they are never without a chance to come back, thought they may be damaged or hurt by the time they *bleat for help*. 😉 The shepherd always offers them protection and guidance, but He cannot force them to Follow Him.
  3. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    05 Feb '07 03:55
    Originally posted by SharpeMother
    I'm assuming that you are referring to Christ as the Shepherd and Christians as His flock..?

    The sheep have a free will to wander, but they are never without a chance to come back, thought they may be damaged or hurt by the time they *bleat for help*. 😉 The shepherd always offers them protection and guidance, but He cannot force them to Follow Him.
    Shepherds don't force sheep to follow them?
  4. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    05 Feb '07 04:15
    Originally posted by SharpeMother
    I'm assuming that you are referring to Christ as the Shepherd and Christians as His flock..?

    The sheep have a free will to wander, but they are never without a chance to come back, thought they may be damaged or hurt by the time they *bleat for help*. 😉 The shepherd always offers them protection and guidance, but He cannot force them to Follow Him.
    I'm glad you don't work for my Dad.
  5. Joined
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    05 Feb '07 05:44
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    I'm glad you don't work for my Dad.
    Every good analogy has it's limits. Is your dad a shepherd? I grew up on a dairy farm for 15 years, so I know what it's like to try to "force" an animal into submission. They ultimately have to make the final choice. 🙂
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    05 Feb '07 05:45
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Shepherds don't force sheep to follow them?
    No, the shepherd cannot force the sheep to follow him. Are you doubting this?
  7. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    05 Feb '07 06:00
    Originally posted by SharpeMother
    Every good analogy has it's limits. Is your dad a shepherd? I grew up on a dairy farm for 15 years, so I know what it's like to try to "force" an animal into submission. They ultimately have to make the final choice. 🙂
    My Dad is a sheep farmer. I seriously disagree that a sheep has a choice to run from a dog or not; its called instinct for a reason.
  8. Cape Town
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    05 Feb '07 08:57
    Originally posted by Kevin Mcfarland
    If a sheep wounders off and becomes lost or gets hurt or killed. Is it the sheeps fualt or the shepherd in charge of the sheep?
    Sheep are too dumb to 'wonder off'. They have a 'go with the heard' mentality. Now goats on the other hand will do anything to get where they shouldn't be.
  9. Cape Town
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    05 Feb '07 08:59
    Originally posted by Kevin Mcfarland
    If a sheep wounders off and becomes lost or gets hurt or killed. Is it the sheeps fualt or the shepherd in charge of the sheep?
    The boy shepherd comes home with no sheep. His father asks "Where are all the sheep". The boy says "They didn't want to follow me home."

    Do you think the boy or the sheep is about to get punished?
  10. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    05 Feb '07 09:09
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The boy shepherd comes home with no sheep. His father asks "Where are all the sheep". The boy says "They didn't want to follow me home."

    Do you think the boy or the sheep is about to get punished?
    Naturally, again, the son is going to get nailed for the stupidity of the father.
  11. Joined
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    05 Feb '07 09:25
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    My Dad is a sheep farmer. I seriously disagree that a sheep has a choice to run from a dog or not; its called instinct for a reason.
    Yes, but if they don't listen to their instinct (which may be rare or never for a real sheep; as I said, every good analogy has its limits) then is it the dog/shepherds' fault that the sheep got attacked or killed for the choice it made?
  12. Joined
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    05 Feb '07 09:28
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Naturally, again, the son is going to get nailed for the stupidity of the father.
    The son willingly took the place of the sheep because He loved His flock, and the Father knew that the price had to be paid.
  13. Cape Town
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    05 Feb '07 10:07
    Originally posted by SharpeMother
    Yes, but if they don't listen to their instinct (which may be rare or never for a real sheep; as I said, every good analogy has its limits) then is it the dog/shepherds' fault that the sheep got attacked or killed for the choice it made?
    If the sheep frequently does not respect the sheep dog then it is likely to end up in the pot!
    If it was a one off case then the shepherd / sheepdog are not to blame as they could not have predicted it.
    However I don't think the sheep is to 'blame' either.

    If the farmer has a choice he makes sure that his sheep are the well behaved type of sheep. A farmer who keeps goats is just asking for trouble, and should take extra precautions.

    Now who is guilty of putting the wolf there?
  14. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    05 Feb '07 10:31
    Originally posted by SharpeMother
    Yes, but if they don't listen to their instinct (which may be rare or never for a real sheep; as I said, every good analogy has its limits) then is it the dog/shepherds' fault that the sheep got attacked or killed for the choice it made?
    A good farmer never lets his sheep wander so far. If this is your analogy, it only points to a crap God who claims to be omnibenevolent, yet allows not only pain, death and torture in the physical world but also eternal damnation in the one to come afterwards.
  15. Cape Town
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    05 Feb '07 12:18
    Originally posted by SharpeMother
    The son willingly took the place of the sheep because He loved His flock, and the Father knew that the price had to be paid.
    That is something I have never understood and yet it seems to be taken as obvious by most Christians. Why is there a price to be paid? What is being bought? From whom, by whom? Is it perhaps a fine we are talking about? If so what is its purpose? Punishment? The maintenance of the Heaven Fund? Who is collecting it? When Jesus suffered and died, did God collect the suffering and death as payment for something? How does the whole 'died but rose again' thing work? Did he pay then get a refund?
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