05 Feb 07
Originally posted by Kevin McfarlandI'm assuming that you are referring to Christ as the Shepherd and Christians as His flock..?
If a sheep wounders off and becomes lost or gets hurt or killed. Is it the sheeps fualt or the shepherd in charge of the sheep?
The sheep have a free will to wander, but they are never without a chance to come back, thought they may be damaged or hurt by the time they *bleat for help*. 😉 The shepherd always offers them protection and guidance, but He cannot force them to Follow Him.
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherShepherds don't force sheep to follow them?
I'm assuming that you are referring to Christ as the Shepherd and Christians as His flock..?
The sheep have a free will to wander, but they are never without a chance to come back, thought they may be damaged or hurt by the time they *bleat for help*. 😉 The shepherd always offers them protection and guidance, but He cannot force them to Follow Him.
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherI'm glad you don't work for my Dad.
I'm assuming that you are referring to Christ as the Shepherd and Christians as His flock..?
The sheep have a free will to wander, but they are never without a chance to come back, thought they may be damaged or hurt by the time they *bleat for help*. 😉 The shepherd always offers them protection and guidance, but He cannot force them to Follow Him.
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzEvery good analogy has it's limits. Is your dad a shepherd? I grew up on a dairy farm for 15 years, so I know what it's like to try to "force" an animal into submission. They ultimately have to make the final choice. 🙂
I'm glad you don't work for my Dad.
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherMy Dad is a sheep farmer. I seriously disagree that a sheep has a choice to run from a dog or not; its called instinct for a reason.
Every good analogy has it's limits. Is your dad a shepherd? I grew up on a dairy farm for 15 years, so I know what it's like to try to "force" an animal into submission. They ultimately have to make the final choice. 🙂
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by Kevin McfarlandSheep are too dumb to 'wonder off'. They have a 'go with the heard' mentality. Now goats on the other hand will do anything to get where they shouldn't be.
If a sheep wounders off and becomes lost or gets hurt or killed. Is it the sheeps fualt or the shepherd in charge of the sheep?
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by Kevin McfarlandThe boy shepherd comes home with no sheep. His father asks "Where are all the sheep". The boy says "They didn't want to follow me home."
If a sheep wounders off and becomes lost or gets hurt or killed. Is it the sheeps fualt or the shepherd in charge of the sheep?
Do you think the boy or the sheep is about to get punished?
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadNaturally, again, the son is going to get nailed for the stupidity of the father.
The boy shepherd comes home with no sheep. His father asks "Where are all the sheep". The boy says "They didn't want to follow me home."
Do you think the boy or the sheep is about to get punished?
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzYes, but if they don't listen to their instinct (which may be rare or never for a real sheep; as I said, every good analogy has its limits) then is it the dog/shepherds' fault that the sheep got attacked or killed for the choice it made?
My Dad is a sheep farmer. I seriously disagree that a sheep has a choice to run from a dog or not; its called instinct for a reason.
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherIf the sheep frequently does not respect the sheep dog then it is likely to end up in the pot!
Yes, but if they don't listen to their instinct (which may be rare or never for a real sheep; as I said, every good analogy has its limits) then is it the dog/shepherds' fault that the sheep got attacked or killed for the choice it made?
If it was a one off case then the shepherd / sheepdog are not to blame as they could not have predicted it.
However I don't think the sheep is to 'blame' either.
If the farmer has a choice he makes sure that his sheep are the well behaved type of sheep. A farmer who keeps goats is just asking for trouble, and should take extra precautions.
Now who is guilty of putting the wolf there?
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherA good farmer never lets his sheep wander so far. If this is your analogy, it only points to a crap God who claims to be omnibenevolent, yet allows not only pain, death and torture in the physical world but also eternal damnation in the one to come afterwards.
Yes, but if they don't listen to their instinct (which may be rare or never for a real sheep; as I said, every good analogy has its limits) then is it the dog/shepherds' fault that the sheep got attacked or killed for the choice it made?
05 Feb 07
Originally posted by SharpeMotherThat is something I have never understood and yet it seems to be taken as obvious by most Christians. Why is there a price to be paid? What is being bought? From whom, by whom? Is it perhaps a fine we are talking about? If so what is its purpose? Punishment? The maintenance of the Heaven Fund? Who is collecting it? When Jesus suffered and died, did God collect the suffering and death as payment for something? How does the whole 'died but rose again' thing work? Did he pay then get a refund?
The son willingly took the place of the sheep because He loved His flock, and the Father knew that the price had to be paid.