1. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    06 Oct '06 00:581 edit
    Evaluate the probability that God exists.

    Show your work by citing what bits of evidence and information you have considered and how they correspond to factors in your calcualtion.
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    06 Oct '06 01:08
    Dr S. l evaluate the probabilities (based on the only evidence being hearsay) are 0%.
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    06 Oct '06 01:09
    Originally posted by nook7
    Dr S. l evaluate the probabilities (based on the only evidence being hearsay) are 0%.
    You don't attribute any evidentiary weight at all to hearsay?
  4. Donationkirksey957
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    06 Oct '06 01:12
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Evaluate the probability that God exists.

    Show your work by citing what bits of evidence and information you have considered and how they correspond to factors in your calcualtion.
    I once read a book by a theologian who citing Moses said, "when God calls you, your troubles are just beginning." So I started thinking about this statement and considered the horrible treatment given to the prophets, the suffering of Job, the rejection and crucifixion of Jesus, and the ordeals of the Apostle Paul, not to mention the persecution of Christians through the ages. I also thought about the suffering of the "chosen people."

    I then looked at my own life and how difficult certain periods have been and still are. Ironically, I , like many people of faith through the ages, wonder "how long, O Lord, how long." So to get back to your question, I guess I would say God exists because suffering exists. Or perhaps God just simply called me.
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    06 Oct '06 01:13
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    You don't attribute any evidentiary weight at all to hearsay?
    In some cases l would. However in this case as much of the hearsay contradicts itself l find it hard to believe that any of it has weight.
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    06 Oct '06 01:23
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I once read a book by a theologian who citing Moses said, "when God calls you, your troubles are just beginning." So I started thinking about this statement and considered the horrible treatment given to the prophets, the suffering of Job, the rejection and crucifixion of Jesus, and the ordeals of the Apostle Paul, not to mention the persecution of Chris ...[text shortened]... ss I would say God exists because suffering exists. Or perhaps God just simply called me.
    Should I put you down for 100%?
  7. Donationkirksey957
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    06 Oct '06 01:25
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Should I put you down for 100%?
    Naw, just let me wallow in my damn misery. I'll just sing me a negro spiritual and go on as best I can.
  8. Hmmm . . .
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    06 Oct '06 01:391 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Evaluate the probability that God exists.

    Show your work by citing what bits of evidence and information you have considered and how they correspond to factors in your calcualtion.
    Well, if you’re talking about the God of “supernatural theism,” first you have to consider evidence for the supernatural category. Just because there may be things that transcend human cognitive abilities, does not mean that they are supernatural (by which I mean here “extra-natural” )—just that something about the natural order may not be accessible to human cognition.

    I have yet to see such evidence (or an argument that necessitates the leap), and therefore do not (yet) admit the supernatural category at all. [That is why I call myself a nonaligned, nonsupernaturalist monist.] The cosmos we exist in (and of) may never cease to be mysterious; that does not require the admission of a supernatural category, even if one chooses to metaphysically speculate about the mystery.

    If one does admit the supernatural category—I would argue that we have no access to knowledge of such, since our very cognitive capabilities are conditioned by our natural existence (time-space dimensionality, for example—what does it really mean to speak of “an infinite being,” for instance). Even if one admits that a supernatural being can communicate via “divine revelation,” the terms of that revelation must be in/of the natural realm in order for us to find any coherency at all—and thus, such revelation cannot really “reveal” the supernatural realm, but only (at best) “metaphorize” it in natural terms amenable to our cognition. Such metaphors are subject to wide interpretation (based on our cognitive limitations), any/all of which might be far off the mark.

    So, my first question would be: How does one (can one) assign any probability to the existence of a supernatural category per se (as opposed to simply natural phenomena that transcend human cognition)? And, if one assumes a supernatural category, how can one assign any probabilities to possible characteristics of that category (e.g., a personal God)? I do not think it can be done.

    One either decides that there is (or may be) a supernatural theos, or not, for whatever personal reasons (e.g., aesthetic), and proceeds from there, allowing that decision to guide their life. To one who frankly admits such a decision on that basis, I can only say: “May it be for you and others a path of blessing.”

    Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...
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    06 Oct '06 02:11
    Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...


    That could be a problem right there. Your attitude is rebellious. You want someone to come and tickle your curiousity about God.

    Maybe God does not like to waste His revelation on someone who has no intention to let God be a cause of any change in their life. You may be fooling yourself to think that the Ultimate Reality will come to tickle your curiosity.

    I think anyone who would come forward to God must first have a willingness to have their life changed by God. There has to be a spiritual hunger for a better life.

    The flippant and the rebellious should not expect that God will cheaply waste His revelation on them so easily.

    The rebellious would say "I am already filled. I have need of nothing. I certainly am not in need of God" There is no spiritual hunger there. No one advances spiritually without a hunger.

    "The hungry He has filled with good things, and the rich He has sent away empty" (Luke 1:53)

    He imparts good things to those hungry for Him. The self satisfied He will send away empty.
  10. Hmmm . . .
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    06 Oct '06 02:21
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...


    That could be a problem right there. Your attitude is rebellious. You want someone to come and tickle your curiousity about God.

    Maybe God does not like to waste His revelation on someone who has no intention to let God be a cause of any change in their lif ...[text shortened]... He imparts good things to those hungry for Him. The self satisfied He will send away empty.[/b]
    That could be a problem right there. Your attitude is rebellious. You want someone to come and tickle your curiousity about God.

    Don’t try to read my mind, jaywill. You don’t know my attitude or what I want—or anything about how wide-ranging my curiosity is, or how I live my life.

    BTW, “trashy novel” was meant tongue-in-cheek: I just mean something less than good literature for a read before sleep...
  11. Donationrwingett
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    06 Oct '06 02:25
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...


    That could be a problem right there. Your attitude is rebellious. You want someone to come and tickle your curiousity about God.

    Maybe God does not like to waste His revelation on someone who has no intention to let God be a cause of any change in their lif ...[text shortened]... He imparts good things to those hungry for Him. The self satisfied He will send away empty.[/b]
    What this boils down to is that only those who believe in god will believe in god. Sounds like a tautology to me.
  12. Hmmm . . .
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    06 Oct '06 02:42
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...


    That could be a problem right there. Your attitude is rebellious. You want someone to come and tickle your curiousity about God.

    Maybe God does not like to waste His revelation on someone who has no intention to let God be a cause of any change in their lif ...[text shortened]... He imparts good things to those hungry for Him. The self satisfied He will send away empty.[/b]
    Okay, I didn’t want to leave on such a negative note, so—

    Read the last paragraph of my post (before the “trashy novel” comment), and ask yourself this question: “Am I trying to substitute certainty for faith?” KellyJay, for example, does not. Faith always and inescapably involves risk—that’s why it’s called the risk of faith, and a “leap of faith” (Kierkegaard).

    Don’t belittle those who honestly disagree with you—they take their risks of faith, too. Some of us take full and absolute responsibility for our decisions, including decisions of belief in the face of uncertainty. Some of us, if we discover hidden motivations in ourselves, are dedicated to rooting them out. Some of us are committed to self-integrity—whether that leads to agreeable beliefs or not. Don’t assign to us motivations that you cannot know we have.

    As for your own decision of faith: “May it be for you and others a path of blessing.”

    Good night.
  13. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    06 Oct '06 02:42
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...


    That could be a problem right there. Your attitude is rebellious. You want someone to come and tickle your curiousity about God.

    Maybe God does not like to waste His revelation on someone who has no intention to let God be a cause of any change in their lif ...[text shortened]... He imparts good things to those hungry for Him. The self satisfied He will send away empty.[/b]
    Yet, according to Christian doctorine, he made me specifically this way and no other, with perfect foresight. It's HIS fault I cannot believe in him - he made me this way!
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    06 Oct '06 02:57
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Well, if you’re talking about the God of “supernatural theism,” first you have to consider evidence for the [b]supernatural category. Just because there may be things that transcend human cognitive abilities, does not mean that they are supernatural (by which I mean here “extra-natural” )—just that something about the natural order may not be ac ...[text shortened]... f blessing.”

    Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...[/b]
    Solid post.
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    06 Oct '06 03:08
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]Now I’m going to bed and do something reasonable, like reading a trashy novel...


    That could be a problem right there. Your attitude is rebellious. You want someone to come and tickle your curiousity about God.

    Maybe God does not like to waste His revelation on someone who has no intention to let God be a cause of any change in their lif ...[text shortened]... He imparts good things to those hungry for Him. The self satisfied He will send away empty.[/b]
    😵

    vistesd writes beautiful words of tolerance, and that's your response?

    You've reached a new level of smugness and arrogance here.
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