Spirituality
08 Dec 11
09 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritNot so. It is supported in every detail by the Holy Bible.
unfortunately, completely debunked by the bible as previously shown.
That is, the shroud exhibits every detail indicated by the Holy Bible
plus additional details that the Bible writers forgot to mention
but are known to scholars to be true.
09 Dec 11
Originally posted by stokerWell, it seems to me that Jesus believed it was important to leave physical
trinkets, all these things, there is the chains of peter in a church in rome if you belive in this. i do not think jesus would have approved of any such thing.
proof of his resurrection and that the empty tomb and the eye witness
reports from many people would not be enough. He wants as many as
possible to believe and be saved. Therefore, he left photographic evidence
and other scientific evidence on His shroud and Sudarium for all to see,
However, the apostate Roman Catholic Church treats is as a relic today
and will allow little access to those that can actually prove its authenticity.
09 Dec 11
Originally posted by RJHindsProof? I was given to understand that the concept of faith was central to christianity - is that not how you see it?
Well, it seems to me that Jesus believed it was important to leave physical
proof of his resurrection and that the empty tomb and the eye witness
reports from many people would not be enough. He wants as many as
possible to believe and be saved. Therefore, he left photographic evidence
and other scientific evidence on His shroud and Sudarium for all to ...[text shortened]... s a relic today
and will allow little access to those that can actually prove its authenticity.
09 Dec 11
Originally posted by avalanchethecatYes, faith is important, but all the apostles needed proof in varing degrees.
Proof? I was given to understand that the concept of faith was central to christianity - is that not how you see it?
The same holds for us. Proper Knob and googlefudge will need much more
proof than perhaps Kelly Jay or my brother in Christ sunnydid.
09 Dec 11
Originally posted by wolfgang59You sould like a drunkard. But so you will not remain in ignorance here is the
[b]No. The only proof that comes in degrees is in a bottle.
Proof like truth is absolute.
There are however many degrees of ignorance as you ably demonstrate.[/b]
definition of "degree" from the online dictionary.
de·gree (d-gr)
n.
1. One of a series of steps in a process, course, or progression; a stage:
proceeded to the next degree of difficulty.
2. A step in a direct hereditary line of descent or ascent: First cousins are two
degrees from their common ancestor.
3. Relative social or official rank, dignity, or position.
4. Relative intensity or amount, as of a quality or attribute: a high degree of
accuracy.
5. The extent or measure of a state of being, an action, or a relation:
modernized their facilities to a large degree.
6. A unit division of a temperature scale.
7. Mathematics A planar unit of angular measure equal in magnitude to 1/360
of a complete revolution.
8. A unit of latitude or longitude, equal to 1/360 of a great circle.
9. Mathematics
a. The greatest sum of the exponents of the variables in a term of a polynomial
or polynomial equation.
b. The exponent of the derivative of highest order in a differential equation in
standard form.
10.
a. An academic title given by a college or university to a student who has
completed a course of study: received the Bachelor of Arts degree at
commencement.
b. A similar title conferred as an honorary distinction.
11. Law A division or classification of a specific crime according to its
seriousness: murder in the second degree.
12. A classification of the severity of an injury, especially a burn:
a third-degree burn.
13. Grammar One of the forms used in the comparison of adjectives and
adverbs. For example, tall is the positive degree, taller the comparative
degree, and tallest the superlative degree of the adjective tall.
14. Music
a. One of the seven notes of a diatonic scale.
b. A space or line of the staff.
Idioms:
by degrees
Little by little; gradually.
to a degree
To a small extent; in a limited way: doesn't like spicy food, but can eat a little
pepper to a degree.
09 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by wolfgang59There are also other definitions of "Proof" -- from dictionary.com
[b]No. The only proof that comes in degrees is in a bottle.
Proof like truth is absolute.
There are however many degrees of ignorance as you ably demonstrate.[/b]
Proof
noun
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the
proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law . (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.
P.S. Do you see anything here that says proof has to be absolute?
10 Dec 11
Originally posted by RJHindsBiblically, when God has "proven" himself to the world, where did it get him?
http://www.factsplusfacts.com/shroud-of-turin-coins.htm
http://shroud2000.com/FastFacts.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/mhfm1?v=WRB16BARvz0&feature=pyv&ad=7367214632&kw=shroud%20of%20turin
I mean, Adam and Eve knew 100% sure that God existed, then look what happened.
The children of Israel witnessed plagues, the sea parting before them so they could walk across, and manna falling from heaven. Then they forsake him to build a golden cow in order to worship it.
I think you will find that faith may have something to do with the facts, but only a small fraction of it. Faith is not only saying I believe you exist, it means I trust you implicitly with my entire being.
Now try to "prove" that the people you have placed your faith in, whether it be wife, mother, son, friend, etc., is bullet proof.
10 Dec 11
Originally posted by whodeyYes, Adam and eve knew God existed, but they did not put their trust in Him.
Biblically, when God has "proven" himself to the world, where did it get him?
I mean, Adam and Eve knew 100% sure that God existed, then look what happened.
The children of Israel witnessed plagues, the sea parting before them so they could walk across, and manna falling from heaven. Then they forsake him to build a golden cow in order to worship it. ...[text shortened]... u have placed your faith in, whether it be wife, mother, son, friend, etc., is bullet proof.
They decided to put their trust in someont that told them they can do whatever
they wished and then they would be like God. Isn't that basically what the
atheists believe today?
I think you are saying basically what I have said, but in a different way. All
the proof in the world will not help someone who refuses to believe or lacks
the faith to put his trust in his belief. But it is my hope that as the evidence
increases there will come a point that all will believe in Christ and have the
faith to trust in whom they believe.
Although the shroud may not be absolute proof of the resurrection of Christ,
it is a little more evidence to add to the pile. Maybe it will be enough to tip
the scale in the right direction for someone. I don't need it to believe, but
others might.