Shroud Facts

Originally posted by RJHinds
Proof and a sign is what the atheist cry out for. I am only trying to
help them with what I think is proof. If they refuse to believe I can
not help that. I don't understand what proof you think God should
give to prove Himself.

But the flaw in your plan is that you are not providing proof, or even good evidence, you are instead asking us to believe your word, that something is evidence even when scientists and other Christians are telling us you are wrong.
Worst of all, even if the shroud were a genuine burial cloth of a man named Jesus, it would in no way support any supernatural claims regarding the same person. It simply doesn't help your case in the slightest, but rather make you look somewhat gullible and a less than reliable source of information.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Can't I have a hope that all will come to repentence as the Lord wishes?

You can have hope in all you like.

I hope someday I might win the lottery, but there's fat chance in that as I wouldn't waste my money on such.

I can hope a gentleman walks up to me tomorrow and buys me a Ferrari, a mansion and pays me to live a never physical needing life.

I believe my chances of this are zero, nil, nada.

Repentance? WTF is that all about? What did you do wrong exactly? Shii>t your pants when aged 3?

I repent nothing I have done, and never will I. I respect life, never hurt anybody, and live in peace. Why would, and to whom would, I repent?

-m.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Proof and a sign is what the atheist cry out for. I am only trying to
help them with what I think is proof. If they refuse to believe I can
not help that. I don't understand what proof you think God should
give to prove Himself.

If it is proof as you say, then it seems that proof is not what they are after.

What do you think they are after then?

the discussion is moot for a couple of reasons.

1. the shroud is completely debunked by the bible.
2. there is no way to prove that some image of a tortured, crucified man on a piece of cloth, even if it is completely authentic, is that of jesus christ.

bottom line at the end of the day, you have an image of an unidentified man who was executed.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
the discussion is moot for a couple of reasons.

1. the shroud is completely debunked by the bible.
2. there is no way to prove that some image of a tortured, crucified man on a piece of cloth, even if it is completely authentic, is that of jesus christ.

bottom line at the end of the day, you have an image of an unidentified man who was executed.

Not so. I have already explained this to you, but you seem to close your
eyes to the truth of God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Not so. I have already explained this to you, but you seem to close your
eyes to the truth of God.

So now you say that nonbelievers have closed their eyes to the proof. If so, then why would it convert them?

Originally posted by whodey
So now you say that nonbelievers have closed their eyes to the proof. If so, then why would it convert them?

I don't group all unbelievers together as unreachable. There is even a
chance, slim though it may be, that even Voidspirit could open his eyes
in the future.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't group all unbelievers together as unreachable. There is even a
chance, slim though it may be, that even Voidspirit could open his eyes
in the future.

I have one even better for ya!!

In Daniel 9:24-27 we are provided a calendar for the coming of the Messiah. The Jews themselves cacluated the date to be about the time Christ came some 500 years later, yet they rejected him. Instead, their interpretation is that he was SUPPOSE to come at that time, but because of the sinfulness of Israel he is going wait a bit.

So there ya go. We have a calendar basically saying, hey stupid, this stuff is real!!....yet it is scoffed at and tossed aside. In fact, the Bible says that those who don't believe there is a God is a fool. In other words, there is enough evidence around to splain it to us, but it is rejected anyhew.

It reminds me of the parable Jesus gave about the rich man who went to hell. He pleaded that he could return to earth to warn his family and friends, but the response was that they have the prophets to warn them. His account would be of no account. More than likely, it would be splained away if he returned, and he might even talk himself out of it actually happening at all.

Originally posted by whodey
I have one even better for ya!!

In Daniel 9:24-27 we are provided a calendar for the coming of the Messiah. The Jews themselves cacluated the date to be about the time Christ came some 500 years later, yet they rejected him. Instead, their interpretation is that he was SUPPOSE to come at that time, but because of the sinfulness of Israel he is going wait ...[text shortened]... lained away if he returned, and he might even talk himself out of it actually happening at all.

True. But sometimes there is an exception to the rule. Maybe, someone
on this forum is an exception.

Originally posted by whodey
I have one even better for ya!!

In Daniel 9:24-27 we are provided a calendar for the coming of the Messiah. The Jews themselves cacluated the date to be about the time Christ came some 500 years later, yet they rejected him. Instead, their interpretation is that he was SUPPOSE to come at that time, but because of the sinfulness of Israel he is going wait ...[text shortened]... lained away if he returned, and he might even talk himself out of it actually happening at all.

you fail to note that there were many so called messiahs roaming around during those times. they all failed, ergo they were all rejected by the jews whose messiah did not come.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Not so. I have already explained this to you, but you seem to close your
eyes to the truth of God.

1. the shroud is completely debunked by the bible.
2. there is no way to prove that some image of a tortured, crucified man on a piece of cloth, even if it is completely authentic, is that of jesus christ.

bottom line at the end of the day, you have an image of an unidentified man who was executed.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
you fail to note that there were many so called messiahs roaming around during those times. they all failed, ergo they were all rejected by the jews whose messiah did not come.

Failed? Is that why the prophesy of Isaiah 53 matches the life and death of Christ? At best, all you can say is that the life and death of Christ was made up to mirror the prophesies. I have heard some who think as much.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
1. the shroud is completely debunked by the bible.
2. there is no way to prove that some image of a tortured, crucified man on a piece of cloth, even if it is completely authentic, is that of jesus christ.

bottom line at the end of the day, you have an image of an unidentified man who was executed.

The man was not just executed, but tortured and crucified in exactly the
same way as Christ which is unusual for a crucifixion for not a bone in his
body was broken and that is only one difference.

Originally posted by whodey
Failed? Is that why the prophesy of Isaiah 53 matches the life and death of Christ? At best, all you can say is that the life and death of Christ was made up to mirror the prophesies. I have heard some who think as much.

completely failed. jesus did not fulfill a single actual messianic prophesy.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
completely failed. jesus did not fulfill a single actual messianic prophesy.

Can you explain how all of the following is wrong?

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/messiah.htm

http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/messiah.htm

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prophchr.html