So if God destroys the universe, does he die?

Originally posted by N8Grandjam
"So you hold to the opinion that for ALL people who suffer some grave affliction, horrific accident, abomination at the hands of another person etc.., and recieve no mercy other than a long and painful death; there exists NO person who sought God's help???"

Never have I alluded to such a preposterous possibility. I know that there are many people who p ...[text shortened]... irst quote... God cannot shape our choices, he made the world, its our pool to piss in.

You haven´t answered my questions.

You´ve talked about God not being able to prevent us from coming to harm as the result of our own actions or the actions of other free thinking individuals.

But, consider someone who is poisoned by Mercury, or another naturally occuring, toxic substance, that gets into their food or water supply somehow. Also consider that this event takes place in a time before this substance was even know, let alone understood. Is the suffering of this person just? If God is benevolent then it cannot possibly be just as this person has done nothing wrong, could never have done anything wrong because they had no idea of the existence of this toxic substance.

Your response makes sense if God is considered to be not benevolent, or does not directly involve himself in the running of this world. I´m agnostic, I don´t know whether or not God exists, but if He does this is the way in which I think He interacts with the universe. He does nothing, or he observes but does not act. He built it, started it up and then left it alone, hence the reason for all the suffering that I´ve highlighted. A truly benevolent God would not, could not, let that suffering happen unjustly because He would then not be truly benevolent. So, the nature of our world suggests to me that a Biblical representation of God is not possible. If you are a Christian then surely your religion requires that you believe God to be infinitely benevolent, because He died for our sins, right? Are you a Christian?

Ok... First off, because so many people want MY god to be the Christian God so they can tear it down, let me explain this. Im agnostic... I dont believe that theres any way that you or anyone else can prove God exists. Such a thing would be tantamount to abolishing Faith. You cant have faith in a fact. You would simply know God existed.

Secondly, Everyone seems to think that God isnt benevelolent because in our ignorance, we may inadvertantly damage ourselves or those around us. No, God doesnt stop free will from causing us harm, but neither does he have to provide US with the ability to see all perceivable harm. But did GOD prevent us from understanding mercury in the past? No. Did God Put that Mercury into your sandwich? No. Do lots of people just want to be martyrs? Seemingly yes but thats not my point.

TWWhiteHead... You say that Im "effectively saying that God is incapable of interfering with the universe or assisting anyone in any way as that will conflict with the concept of free will" No I am not saying that... Ponder this situation...

A man is suffering from a rarely seen disease in a backwater town in Europe. The disease was caused by improper nutrition which is common in the area due to alchoholism, yet the disease remains rare. A doctor who specializes in similar diseases is traveling through the town on the way to a conference in his medical field. On a freak accident his bus breaks down in town and he is forced to stay at the local hotel. While staying there he meets the sick man and is able to treat him with little more than an injection.

In this case, the man wasnt sick because of Gods wrath or lack of benevolence, it was the man's choices which led to his affliction. God could have influenced this earlier perhaps by guiding more priestly or heath related professionals towards his way bt would the man have learned anything? No. But by letting the man get sick, suffer for his actions, and receive help froma stranger, God allows this man to learn much, if he would but open his eyes and see. That is of course, if God was even involved, or if it was just the running of the program we are all operating on since the creation of the mechanical universe. I am Agnostic after all.


Nige22: I believe that your perception of a 'christian' God involves ALOT more meddling than I had ever thought practical. Should God affect EVERY situation which could have an 'unjust' outcome for a few people? What about Animals? Should God interfere to give animals no suffering whatsoever at the hands of humans because they didnt choose it? Opening the pandoras box of 'unjust suffering' only opens the philosophical books for what constitutes justice on a divine, universal level. Isnt God helping to toughen our species by allowing elements of his divine creation to cause us suffering, either because of our poor choices, or our own IGNORANCE. Remember, we ate from the tree of knowledge, and we lost our innocence... WE cannot claim the justice of eden, while eating the fruit of the tree of life.