Originally posted by knightmeister
I didn't think I had to spell it out , but if you insist. How does the Atheist humanist respond to the prospect of humanity screwing up the planet (and themselves) ? Would this not lead one to conclude that maybe the Bible isn't so far off the mark after all when it claims that humanity is fallen and in need of salvation? Would not one's belief in the ...[text shortened]... rouble (fallen) and needs salvation. So , as I said , what about you guys? Clear enough now?

hummm, I agree this is becoming a bit of a merry-go-round. We almost seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing.

It's a sad thought but maybe the majority of people don't really care what's going to happen to our environment, simply because they most likely won’t be here to taste the end. I stand on the wall with this one. The trouble is that the minority that does want to do some thing about this predicament don't really seem to know how they can help. Am i write or am I just generating more fiction?

Originally posted by Halitose
Potential for what? Bungling?

Edit: In much the same way we have just accidentally stumbled to the top of the food-chain, our whole existence is accident-prone and ultimately meaningless.

3 edits and nothing worthwhile to say. YOUR potential amazes me sometimes, Hal.

Originally posted by knightmeister
You misunderstand. I am not suggesting that humanism is causing Global warming but I am suggesting that humans themselves are , and that inlcudes religious and non-religious alike. I would assume that if we did the unthinkable and reallly screwed things up you would hold your head in your hands in dismay and any faith you had in human potential and hum ...[text shortened]... ience is that Atheists enjoy their foreign holidays and new cars as much as the religious.

But the thing is, you'd never let your god shoulder any of the blame, because that'd shatter the bedrock of your faith. I think humans are humans, and as many different types of theist as there are, there are just as many types of humanist. Everyone is an individual, and everyone sees things in their own way. Your stereotypes are just not valid. Yes, humans are screwing up the planet, the difference is whether you take religions whithering view of the situation (it's ordained by God / its our fault, because we're evil) or you can say "we have the power to do something about this" and actually try.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Would this not lead one to conclude that maybe the Bible isn't so far off the mark after all when it claims that humanity is fallen and in need of salvation?

One of my bilogy lecturers always said, "correlation is not causation". Just because the bible makes 1 accurate observation (that humans can be complete a-holes sometimes) doesn't make everything else it says true. You have to learn that lesson before you pass go.

Seems to me, that the biggest polluter in the world is a christian country. Maybe it's just the religious which are fallen.

Originally posted by Halitose
Take responsibility for what?

For their actions. We wouldn't get a global disaster caused by humans if everybody would act responsibly.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
[b]One of my bilogy lecturers always said, "correlation is not causation". Just because the bible makes 1 accurate observation (that humans can be complete a-holes sometimes) doesn't make everything else it says true.

But I only said it had made 1 accurate observation. I don't remember implying that this meant it ALL had to be true. Missrepresentation is the lowest form of debating.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
But the thing is, you'd never let your god shoulder any of the blame, because that'd shatter the bedrock of your faith. I think humans are humans, and as many different types of theist as there are, there are just as many types of humanist. Everyone is an individual, and everyone sees things in their own way. Your stereotypes are just not valid. Ye ...[text shortened]... il) or you can say "we have the power to do something about this" and actually try.

So you agree that humans are screwing up the planet but you don't find this state of affairs troubling at all to any faith you might have in human potential. Perhaps you think we might only screw it up 'a bit' and get away with it? You may continue to speculate about how the bedrock of my faith might be shaken but I'm afraid I asked first.

I agree with you that we need to see it as a problem we have the power to solve but the basic difficulty is that we won't see it as a problem until it's too late.

I think I need to re-post this in 20 years time when we still have done virtually nothing about it then there may be more urgency and soul searching around. At some point we will all be forced to ask some serious questions about human nature and where we are all headed on this planet. At what point would you begin to question the reasonableness of human nature ? 1 metre sea level rise , 2 metres , 3 , 4 ,5 (or 2 degree temp rise , 3 ,4 ,5 ...)??? You need to ask yourself the right questions instead of waffling on about religion's failings.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
3 edits and nothing worthwhile to say. YOUR potential amazes me sometimes, Hal.

Obviously if it doesn't stroke that enormous faith in human potential it must be wrong -- reality will alter to fit our utopian expectations.

Originally posted by Nordlys
For their actions. We wouldn't get a global disaster caused by humans if everybody would act responsibly.

Why should we bother averting disaster? We're bound to be bumped off the top of the food-chain sooner or later by some better evolved creature.

Originally posted by Halitose
Why should we bother averting disaster? We're bound to be bumped off the top of the food-chain sooner or later by some better evolved creature.

Whistle while you work.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Whistle while you work.

Huh? I like a consistency of worldview.