Socialization & Religion

Originally posted by FMF
OK, then. So, when you say "no one is capable of righteous actions", you are in fact referring to BOTH non-Christians AND Christians; neither group is "capable of righteous actions", is that what you are saying?

Yes, in and of ourselves none of us is 'righteous'. None of us have God’s own perfection in every attribute, every attitude, every behavior, and every word.

Doing charitable works does not make you righteous. Even though we are encouraged to be charitable that is not what saves us.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes, in and of ourselves none of us is 'righteous'. None of us have God’s own perfection in every attribute, every attitude, every behavior, and every word.

Doing charitable works does not make you righteous. Even though we are encouraged to be charitable that is not what saves us.

You are deliberately misunderstanding what is being put to you. I've seen you do this time and time again here for several months. Are you claiming that it is impossible for the charitable work done by Christians to be righteous even if they declare themselves to be unworthy and do these works "in Christ" as KellyJay put it?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Doing charitable works does not make you righteous. Even though we are encouraged to be charitable that is not what saves us.

You say good works are "encouraged". Does that mean you believe you can be "saved" even without doing any good works?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes, in and of ourselves none of us is 'righteous'. None of us have God’s own perfection in every attribute, every attitude, every behavior, and every word.

Do you think society would benefit if all parents taught their young children that their every attribute, every attitude, every behavior, and every word can never be righteous?

Originally posted by FMF
You are deliberately misunderstanding what is being put to you. I've seen you do this time and time again here for several months. Are you claiming that it is impossible for the charitable work done by Christians to be righteous even if they declare themselves to be unworthy and do these works "in Christ" as KellyJay put it?

If you are led by the spirit of God you will do charitable works but the works themselves are not righteous because only God is righteous. Man's motives are never pure because they come from a sinful heart. This is not a difficult concept to understand.

Originally posted by FMF
You say good works are "encouraged". Does that mean you believe you can be "saved" even without doing any good works?

Did the thief on the cross do any good works?

Originally posted by FMF
Do you think society would benefit if all parents taught their young children that their every attribute, every attitude, every behavior, and every word can never be righteous?

If they taught that in a biblical context that we are all born in sin but that there is hope if we repent, believe the gospel and put to death the works of the flesh and walk in the spirit, why not?

I guess you think it's better to tell them they evolved from a blob of goo and they have no intrinsic value and there is no absolute standard of right and wrong?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If they taught that in a biblical context that we are all born in sin but that there is hope if we repent, believe the gospel and put to death the works of the flesh and walk in the spirit, why not?

How young would your children be when you start inculcating them with the notion that their every attribute, their every attitude, their every behavior, and every word can never be morally justified?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I guess you think it's better to tell them they evolved from a blob of goo and they have no intrinsic value and there is no absolute standard of right and wrong?

Huh? Blob of goo? Children have no intrinsic value? What are you on about?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Did the thief on the cross do any good works?

What thief on what cross? You are talking about a folk tale written 2,000 years ago?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you are led by the spirit of God you will do charitable works but the works themselves are not righteous because only God is righteous.

Are these "charitable works" required and necessary for "salvation" or are they optional?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Man's motives are never pure because they come from a sinful heart. This is not a difficult concept to understand.

Christians tell themselves that they are not capable of righteous actions and that they have a "sinful" heart but they also tell themselves that they will be rewarded with immortality regardless of these shortcomings, as long as they think that Jesus is going to "save" them.

Meanwhile, there are those Christians - like sonship and Grampy Bobby, for example, and I'm not sure, maybe you too [?] - who tell themselves that non-Christians are also not capable of righteous actions and that non-Christians also have a "sinful" heart but these other people will not be rewarded with immortality - indeed they will be subjected to angry, vengeful torture for eternity - because they do not think that Jesus is going to "save" them.

I understand the concept that you are putting forward. But it's just rooted in a kind of random far-fetched self-congratulatory superstition to me. It has no coherent moral content.

You unilaterally declare everyone to be incapable of morally justified actions, but then unilaterally declare yourself to be "forgiven" on account of the fact that you think certain stuff about yourself and think certain stuff about Jesus. You even suggest that you don't have to do any good works, for safe measure. So you're sorted.

Morally speaking, on all fronts, it just seems to be a rather facile cop out.

Originally posted by FMF
How young would your children be when you start inculcating them with the notion that their every attribute, their every attitude, their every behavior, and every word can never be morally justified?

How young will your kids be when you start inculcating them with the wisdom of Sagan, Marx and Darwin?

Originally posted by FMF
Huh? Blob of goo? Children have no intrinsic value? What are you on about?

Have you not read 'Atheism for dummies'?

Originally posted by FMF
Are these "charitable works" required and necessary for "salvation" or are they optional?

You sound like a stuck record, go back and read my previous posts slowly and attentively.