Societal evolution of the Personal Savior

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
"Kingdom of Heaven" does not indicate humanity at large, in my view.

I don’t think so either, but I don’t think the field in the parable represents the Kingdom of Heaven. I think the field represents the world and Jesus is talking about the saved and damned living together until the saved go to heaven and the damned go to hell.

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem

This is a theory of mine.

Western people used to relate to "God" as the Bringer of Hell, Fire and Brimstone. This mirrors a time in the USA where success of the country was not a given. People in general were worried about major things going wrong in their lives.

You do realize that the Gospel has been being preached down the centuries in other continents besides North America. I mean while it was being proclaimed in say, Wales, or Ethiopia, or Australia, or some other country before or during its preaching in the USA, how would that fit your theory?

But then, prosperity gradually became more assured. Meeting of basic needs became taken for granted. The game was now Happiness and Finding Meaning in Life. It wasn't good enough to simply keep a steady job and feed your family until death. You were now a failure if you didn't strive for Happiness and Meaning.

I've been thinking on this. i have nothing to add now.

In parallel, Fire and Brimstone ceased to be a compelling narrative to believers. It was a given that those things no longer happened. Now, there needed to be a positive, affirmative, reason to practice Christianity.

I think as I consider the document from which the Gospel preaching is derived - the New Testament - both aspects are given attention. The matter of God's judgment and the need for salvation from it and meaning and purpose for being saved.

People's emphasis may vary from time to time. And that positively according to need or negatively according to some trends to make the message more palatable.

But good reasons and bad reasons may govern shifting emphasis in given the message. The message itself in the New Testament is widespread, all-incompassing, and multifaceted.

John's Gospel is a good illustration of this.
You have there about nine cases of people who were in need of Christ as life. They are contrasted and juxtaposed against each other.

Ie. -Nicodemus was a greatly upstanding and "good" man with some good questions for the Teacher. Followed by a woman who had had five husbands, was alienated, for low reputation and was just so THIRSTY for happiness in life.

And so on as it goes from chapter to chapter. From various angles John selects his cases to build his bottom line. Christ came to give divine life to every shortage of life in human beings. And that whether they are rich or poor, good or bad, religious or non-religious, strong or weak.

The new reason incorporated a common end to the dual goals of happiness and meaning: the relationship with Christ.

At first, Christ was the Savior of all mankind. Which was great, and all, yeah yeah, blah blah blah, but what's in it for the individual believer?

It isn't good enough that Christ saved mankind. The individual doesn't know them, can't relate to them, etc. Christ must morph into their PERSONAL savior. Not that they're needy or anything. They just know they're that important.

Wouldn't it make sense that the ultimate truth of life would be both personal and corporate? Wouldn't it seem right if the final truth of life had both unity and diversity?

Originally posted by @romans1009
I don’t think so either, but I don’t think the field in the parable represents the Kingdom of Heaven. I think the field represents the world and Jesus is talking about the saved and damned living together until the saved go to heaven and the damned go to hell.

Hmm. The language is perhaps open to interpretation:

"24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. "

If the field is not analogous to the "Kingdom of Heaven" - then what is? The man? That makes a strange analogy. Can it be tortured into making some sense somehow?

Originally posted by @sonship

This is a theory of mine.

Western people used to relate to "God" as the Bringer of Hell, Fire and Brimstone. This mirrors a time in the USA where success of the country was not a given. People in general were worried about major things going wrong in their lives.

You do realize that the Gospel has been being preached down the centurie ...[text shortened]... l and corporate? Wouldn't it seem right if the final truth of life had both unity and diversity?

Yes, I realize the gospel went to other countries. It came here from other countries to begin with. My theory is US-centric. I'm sticking to discussing a society I know something about.

Wouldn't it make sense that the ultimate truth of life would be both personal and corporate? Wouldn't it seem right if the final truth of life had both unity and diversity?

I'm not talking about any 'ultimate truth of life'. I'm talking about how people of faith view their interaction with God. It is logically possible that, say, Deism is correct; that God doesn't much care for having any relationships with humans. There is no guarantee that if any sort of god exists, then he or her must cultivate such relationships.

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
Hmm. The language is perhaps open to interpretation:

"24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. "

If the field is not analogous to the "Kingdom of Heaven" - then what is? The man? That makes a strange analogy. Can it be tortured into making some sense somehow?

This is long, but it’s an interesting commentary on the Parable of the Wheat and Tares:

Question: "What is the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares?"

Answer: The Parable of the Wheat and the Weeds, or Tares, is filled with spiritual significance and truth. But, in spite of the clear explanation of the parable that Jesus gave (Matthew 13:36-43), this parable is very often misinterpreted. Many commentaries and sermons have attempted to use this story as an illustration of the condition of the church, noting that there are both true believers (the wheat) and false professors (the weeds) in both the church at large and individual local churches. While this may be true, Jesus distinctly explains that the field is not the church; it is the world (v. 38).

Even if He hadn’t specifically told us the world is the setting of the story, it would still be obvious. The landowner tells the servants not to pull up the weeds in the field, but to leave them until the end of the age. If the field were the church, this command would directly contradict Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 18, which tells us how to deal with unrepentant sinners in the church: they are to be put out of the fellowship and treated as unbelievers. Jesus never instructed us to let impenitent sinners remain in our midst until the end of the age. So, Jesus is teaching here about “the kingdom of heaven” (v. 24) in the world.

In the agricultural society of Christ’s time, many farmers depended on the quality of their crops. An enemy sowing weeds would have sabotaged a business. The tares in the parable were likely darnel because that weed, until mature, appears as wheat. Without modern weed killers, what would a wise farmer do in such a dilemma? Instead of tearing out the wheat with the tares, the landowner in this parable wisely waited until the harvest. After harvesting the whole field, the tares could be separated and burned. The wheat would be saved in the barn.

In the explanation of parable, Christ declares that He Himself is the sower. He spreads His redeemed seed, true believers, in the field of the world. Through His grace, these Christians bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-24). Their presence on earth is the reason the “kingdom of heaven” is like the field of the world. When Jesus said, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17; Mark 3:2), He meant the spiritual realm which exists on earth side by side with the realm of the evil one (1 John 5:19). When the kingdom of heaven comes to its fruition, heaven will be a reality and there will be no “weeds” among the “wheat.” But for now, both good and bad seeds mature in the world.

The enemy in the parable is Satan. In opposition to Jesus Christ, the devil tries to destroy Christ’s work by placing false believers and teachers in the world who lead many astray. One has only to look at the latest televangelist scandal to know the world is filled with professing “Christians” whose ungodly actions bring reproach on the name of Christ. But we are not to pursue such people in an effort to destroy them. For one thing, we don’t know if immature and innocent believers might be injured by our efforts. Further, one has only to look at the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, and the reign of “Bloody Mary” in England to see the results of men taking upon themselves the responsibility of separating true believers from false, a task reserved for God alone. Instead of requiring these false believers to be rooted out of the world, and possibly hurting immature believers in the process, Christ allows them to remain until His return. At that time, angels will separate the true from false believers.

In addition, we are not to take it upon ourselves to uproot unbelievers because the difference between true and false believers isn’t always obvious. Tares, especially in the early stages of growth, resemble wheat. Likewise, a false believer may resemble a true believer. In Matthew 7:22, Jesus warned that many profess faith but do not know Him. Thus, each person should examine his own relationship with Christ (2 Corinthians 13:5). First John is an excellent test of salvation.

Jesus Christ will one day establish true righteousness. After He raptures the true church out of this world, God will pour out His righteous wrath on the world. During that tribulation, He will draw others to saving faith in Jesus Christ. At the end of the tribulation, all unbelievers will be judged for their sin and unbelief; then, they will be removed from God’s presence. True followers of Christ will reign with Him. What a glorious hope for the “wheat”!

I thought this was going to be some take on the 'evolving' nature of religions away from tribal gods into personal gods that offer salvation.

But no, it's just like... some kind of ... accusation towards Christianity unduly warping Christ into a personal savior.

I don't get it because that is exactly how he has been presented over the years.