Socrates

Originally posted by whodey
What I find the most interesting is that people like yourself have no problem believing what Joe Shmoe said in history but when it comes to men like Socrates and Jesus Christ all of a sudden they become mythical due to the truth they espoused.

I put an awful lot of store in what people like Socrates and Jesus said. You're making stuff up, whodey. And you've dodged my question too.

I enjoy some of his wit as well.

"By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad wife, you'll become a philosopher"

"Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior"

"Is there anyone to whom you entrust a greater number of serious matters than your wife? And is there anyone with whom you have fewer conversations?"

"I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again"

Originally posted by whodey
I have found that the more you learn the more you realize what you don't know.

Perhaps this is a better way of saying it.

"I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing", which you singled out as a "good quote", is trite nonsense.

Originally posted by FMF
I put an awful lot of store in what people like Socrates and Jesus said. You're making stuff up, whodey. And you've dodged my question too.

What have I made up?

Originally posted by FMF
"I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing", which you singled out as a "good quote", is trite nonsense.

I don't find it to be nonsense. There is truth in it.

I'm reminded of the story of Job in the Bible. All of his friends gather around to judge him and give them their wisdom. but in the end, they just make fools of themselves.

I found a quote that I think says it better.

"He who knows not and knows not that he knows is an incorrigible fool"

I think this is what he is trying to say in the other quote. Especially when he said the following.

"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance"

Originally posted by whodey
What have I made up?

I don't have any problem believing that people like Socrates and Jesus said things and maybe even said many of the things attributed to them. I don't see how Socrates is "mythical" as you suggest I do, and the mythologizing of Jesus was something the early Christians did. I don't think it is a myth that he lived and that he was a rabbi and that he was probably executed for some form of sedition. As for "having no trouble believing what Joe Shmoe said" down through history, it surely depends on what they said and whether there is reason to believe them.

Originally posted by whodey
[b]I don't find it to be nonsense. There is truth in it.b]

It is complete nonsense. There is no truth in saying "I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing". Even you had to say something completely different when you tried to defend it as a "good quote". It is vacuous and trite.

For those of faith, here are a few more gems from Socrates.

"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light"

"In all of us, even in good men, there is a lawless wild-beast nature, which peers out in sleep"

"It is not difficult to avoid death, gentlemen of the jury; it is much more difficult to avoid wickedness, for it runs faster than death"

"My plainness of speech makes them hate me, and what is their hatred but a proof that I'm speaking the truth"

"Are you not ashamed to be concerned so much about making all the money you can and advancing your reputation and prestige, while for truth and wisdom and the improvement of your souls you have no thought or care?"

"Contentment is a natural wealth, and luxury is an artificial poverty"

"Prefer knowledge to wealth, for the one is transitory, the other perpetual"

"When you want wisdom and insight as badly as you want to breathe, it is then you will have it"

"Death may be the greatest of all human blessings for it is only in death that we are cured of the sickness of life"

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"

"I was afraid that by observing objects with my eyes and trying to comprehend them with each of my other senses I might blind my soul altogether"

Originally posted by whodey
For those of faith, here are a few more gems from Socrates.

Do you think the people establishing their new religion in the decades and centuries after Jesus' death may have copied Socrates' ideas and incorporated them into their writing deliberately?

Originally posted by FMF
Do you think the people establishing their new religion in the decades and centuries after Jesus' death may have copied Socrates' ideas and incorporated them into their writing deliberately?

If I was crafting something that I hoped would become a religion and grow forever, I would choose from all the sources available to me at the time. Wouldn't you?

testing 1,2,3 ...

Originally posted by Kewpie
If I was crafting something that I hoped would become a religion and grow forever, I would choose from all the sources available to me at the time. Wouldn't you?

Of course. And if that is what happened then it would help to explain why Christianity has been a very successful retail religion. i.e. bits of it make sense and ring true. What's interesting though is that many Christians deny that their religion drew upon and incorporated parts of other religions and philosophies when it was establishing itself.

Originally posted by FMF
Good for what? A fridge magnet or a bumper sticker perhaps?

It's a bit long I think.

Just "I know nothing" then?

Whether it's the short version or the long version, I don't think it's profound at all really.

Why do you think it is?

So, what is piety?

Originally posted by DeepThought
So, what is piety?

I have no doubt that you can defend the saying "I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing", if that is what you mean to do, without suggesting I am pious for being unimpressed by it! 😛

Originally posted by FMF
"I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing", which you singled out as a "good quote", is trite nonsense.

That's what you always say about anyone's opinion that's not your own.