Originally posted by knightmeister"How certain are you that there is no ultimate truth? If you are certain of it , then what is your certainty based on if you don't hold your truth to be ultimately true for all of us?"
"There is no ultimate truth, everyone has his/her own truth" - Quirine--
Would you say that this truth you have put forward is ultimately true?
The problem with statements like this is that they are subtley self contradictory. If what you are saying is not ultimately true for all of us then you have no right to state it so assertively for the re ...[text shortened]... your certainty based on if you don't hold your truth to be ultimately true for all of us?
I am as certain as some people are certain there is a god.
As for the the other question I think I create everything that is happening in my life. But so does everyone else. So there may seem to be contradicting creations where in fact (again, to my opinion) everyone is looking/experiencing his/her own creation.
Some of my ideas I got from "A course in miracles".
Originally posted by QuirineBut your philosophy implies that nothing can be certain , only personal truth , so as soon as you cliam that truth for everyone then you are claiming a non-personal truth.
"How certain are you that there is no ultimate truth? If you are certain of it , then what is your certainty based on if you don't hold your truth to be ultimately true for all of us?"
I am as certain as some people are certain there is a god.
As for the the other question I think I create everything that is happening in my life. But so does everyone else. ...[text shortened]... ing/experiencing his/her own creation.
Some of my ideas I got from "A course in miracles".
It like saying "I am absolutely certain that there is no such thing as absolute truth"
You either see the paradox or you don't. Maybe you don't.
BTW- I quite like the course in miracles but it goes a tad too far maybe.
Originally posted by QuirineI am as certain as some people are certain there is a god. QUIINE
"How certain are you that there is no ultimate truth? If you are certain of it , then what is your certainty based on if you don't hold your truth to be ultimately true for all of us?"
I am as certain as some people are certain there is a god.
As for the the other question I think I create everything that is happening in my life. But so does everyone else. ...[text shortened]... ing/experiencing his/her own creation.
Some of my ideas I got from "A course in miracles".
But that's Ok for theists because we are claiming absolute ultimate truth actually exists , you are saying that claim is false , therefore you cannot claim absolute certainty in anything because it will shaft your own argument.
Originally posted by twhiteheadHowever , the way it was phrased strongly suggests that he believed his truth was true not just for him but for others also. As soon as he does this it stops being personal truth anymore. He had better just say "this is true for me but may not be for others " but I don't think he really believes this and as long as he doesn't then he has entered the paradoxical nature of his position.
Ahh, but you misted the fact that he, (just like you like to do), redefined the meaning of the word 'truth'. Thus his claims may still remain valid as we don't really know what he means by 'truth'. If he was using a more common definition then you could simply dismiss his statement as nonsense anyway.
He said "there is no ultimate truth" which sounds pretty certain and ultimate to me. He sounds certain that it is true for you and me also , and I guess he will not dispute this.
We all have personal "truths" but if we are being honest we also believe them to be true for others too much of the time.
I think you missed the paradox and are just projecting your mischieviousness on to me (as YOU like to do)
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Originally posted by knightmeisterI never said I was absolute certain. I only said "I think".
I am as certain as some people are certain there is a god. QUIINE
But that's Ok for theists because we are claiming absolute ultimate truth actually exists , you are saying that claim is false , therefore you cannot claim absolute certainty in anything because it will shaft your own argument.
On a rational level I am not absolute certain. On a level of soul/gut feeling or whatever I'm pretty sure. My soul doesn't need proof, it knows. Rational thinking is only a small part of my life and (unlike 10 years ago) I do not rate it high anymore.
Besides, concerning rational thinking: to practise rational logic, first one must assume some basics to start with. These basics are something one has to believe in on the same level as one has to believe there is a god.
PS All my opinion of course, I claim no absolute truth
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhat in the course in miracles goes to far for you?
But your philosophy implies that nothing can be certain , only personal truth , so as soon as you cliam that truth for everyone then you are claiming a non-personal truth.
It like saying "I am absolutely certain that there is no such thing as absolute truth"
You either see the paradox or you don't. Maybe you don't.
BTW- I quite like the course in miracles but it goes a tad too far maybe.
Originally posted by knightmeisterIts hardly less self-contradictory than your claims in past threads that something is not the "Truth" unless it has personal utility for you. You see if he redefines what he means by 'truth' then it doesn't actually have to be 'true'. Its cool being a Christian you know, you can make up words as you go along, and redefine words too (even mid-sentence). That way you can always pretend that you are right even when logically you are talking absolute nonsense.
However , the way it was phrased strongly suggests that he believed his truth was true not just for him but for others also. As soon as he does this it stops being personal truth anymore.
Originally posted by QuirineWhether you are sure or not, your claim is still self contradictory. It is logically impossible for truth to not be universal because if it isn't, then that is a universal truth.
I never said I was absolute certain. I only said "I think".
PS All my opinion of course, I claim no absolute truth
Originally posted by QuirineOk , so if you claim no absolute truth then you must agree that there might be something called "ultimate truth" . Before you said that "there is no ultimate truth" whereas what you should or could have said was "for me personally there is no ultimate truth , but there might be one" (?)
I never said I was absolute certain. I only said "I think".
On a rational level I am not absolute certain. On a level of soul/gut feeling or whatever I'm pretty sure. My soul doesn't need proof, it knows. Rational thinking is only a small part of my life and (unlike 10 years ago) I do not rate it high anymore.
Besides, concerning rational thinking: to prac ...[text shortened]... one has to believe there is a god.
PS All my opinion of course, I claim no absolute truth
BTW- I'm all for your gut feeling approach and agree with your ideas about rational thinking , I just don't think you quite understand the difference between personal truth and ultimate truth.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadHow is my linking truth to personal utility self contradictory ? I missed that bit in amongst your axe grinding , did you actually say? It siounded like all rant and no substance to me.
Its hardly less self-contradictory than your claims in past threads that something is not the "Truth" unless it has personal utility for you. You see if he redefines what he means by 'truth' then it doesn't actually have to be 'true'. Its cool being a Christian you know, you can make up words as you go along, and redefine words too (even mid-sentence). Th ...[text shortened]... always pretend that you are right even when logically you are talking absolute nonsense.
He's entitled to define truth anyway he wants but it needs to be consistent , what I objected to was him making some kind of sweeping statement (" There is no ultimate truth" ) without thinking about the paradox within that statement. It appears you agree with me as well , so why are you playing argumentative cuckoo on our exchanges when you think the same as me? If you want a fight just say so and I will be happy to give as good as I get. I've done it before.
Originally posted by The Dude 84Now this makes sense to me. Even though I don't believe in evolution.
What it comes down to is this: 99% of the people in the world are unaware of where evolutionary study is today, contrasted by 99% of people who have read or been exposed to the bible. Most of evolutions critics still talk about Darwin!
Copernicus was the only person who believed the Earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around...It al ...[text shortened]... d both and nobody is able to convince the other side that they're wrong.
Have a nice day!
If evolution is true I'll find out sooner or later.
I think my problem with evolution has been that I equate it with atheism. Some here have said evolution has nothing to do with whether there is a God or not.
I'm hard headed and stubborn, but I'm not closed minded. Well, maybe a little.
Originally posted by knightmeisterI guess it was more of a rant than anything else. You may not have been self contradictory. You did however use the word truth in a totally non-standard manner without first informing anyone that you had redefined it. I find that can really confuse a debate/discussion as nobody knows what anyone is talking about anymore. For example, suppose I say "You are not telling the truth". I could actually be saying "what you are saying has no personal utility for me so it is not my personal truth". But you wouldn't take it that way would you?
How is my linking truth to personal utility self contradictory ? I missed that bit in amongst your axe grinding , did you actually say? It siounded like all rant and no substance to me.