soul gain

Originally posted by sonship
Can you give me a reason why I should even trust my mind or yours if minds are only reducible to chemical reactions and movements of atoms ?

What do molecules merely in motion care about truth ?

A computer is 'merely' a bunch of electrical signals going around a circuit.

But a computer can be relied upon to do maths incredibly reliably.


Our minds [generally speaking] are as trustworthy today as they were yesterday
and will be tomorrow.
If you started believing that our minds are the products of the physical workings
of our brains and not the products of supernatural 'souls' then how would that
actually change?


Now in reality our brains are not actually particularly trustworthy...
Which is why logic and reason are hard and take effort and why we are often so easy
to fool. But the fact is that your rating of peoples trustworthiness is based on your
experience of their past reliability and not on them having a soul or not.
And thus your view should not shift radically if or when you should cease to believe
in souls.

Similarly you would also quickly realise that your being moral has little to nothing to
do with your belief in god and souls and that the only thing that changes is that you
get to think clearly and freely about how and why you have morals and what they should
be.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"stellspalfie's consciousness, mentality, conscience and volition reside in stellspalfie's unique and immortal immaterial soul." concise factual reply written in lower case as a genteel courtesy in meshing with stellspalfie's style. why the violent reaction?

Because of you hijacking and derailing threads with gibberish word-salads like that.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Because it's the only thing you've got.

Molecules don't care about truth. Nor about lies. They simply behave according to the laws of physics without any kind of emotion. They only adhere to reality, not to fantasy.

Because it's the only thing you've got.

If you are saying that I OUGHT to do something, it makes no sense if my doing is merely the deterministic movement of electrons.

Why "OUGHT" there be one belief or another if my mind is nothing more than molecules fissing ?

Molecules don't care about truth. Nor about lies. They simply behave according to the laws of physics without any kind of emotion. They only adhere to reality, not to fantasy.

You are not choosing to believe something because it is more rational. You are not choosing at all. You're just fissing and bubbling. That is if your mind is reducible to nothing but physicalism.

If you have a pure physicalism view of man it is self refuting.
You are not a free moral agent then.
You are just a fissing machine that knows nothing of what OUGHT to be believed because it is more rational.

Originally posted by sonship

Because it's the only thing you've got.

If you are saying that I [b]OUGHT to do something, it makes no sense if my doing is merely the deterministic movement of electrons.

[/b]

The movement of electrons is not deterministic.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
stellspalfie's consciousness, mentality, conscience and volition reside in stellspalfie's unique and immortal immaterial soul.

Stellspalfie's question:

can anybody give an even remotely logical reason for the existence and function of a soul. what does a soul do that a brain doesnt and visa-versa?

GB's answer:

stellspalfie's consciousness, mentality, conscience and volition reside in stellspalfie's unique and immortal immaterial soul.

This is a simple assertion, not a reason. You need to explain why those attributes can not emerge from the processes going on within the brain.

--- Penguin

Originally posted by sonship
[b You are just a fissing machine that knows nothing of what OUGHT to be believed because it is more rational.[/b]

Basically that it what we all are.

Counter-intuitive and not what we would want.
But that's just tough. Suck it up!!

Originally posted by Penguin
Stellspalfie's question:

can anybody give an even remotely logical reason for the existence and function of a soul. what does a soul do that a brain doesnt and visa-versa?

GB's answer:

stellspalfie's consciousness, mentality, conscience and volition reside in stellspalfie's unique and immortal immaterial soul.

This is a ...[text shortened]... why those attributes can not emerge from the processes going on within the brain.

--- Penguin

Hi, --- Penguin. Seems you forgot one:

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by stellspalfie
i start a thread............but tean have to display to you that i am interested enough to be worthy of your words...........and then when ready, message you privately.............fk,me. get your ego in check old man.

thank you.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Hi, --- Penguin. Seems you forgot one:

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]i start a thread............but tean have to display to you that i am interested enough to be worthy of your words...........and then when ready, message you privately.............fk,me. get your ego in check old man.

thank you.[/b]

Seems you forgot one:

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you need to explain why these thing do not exist in the brain and only in the soul for anybody to understand your answer.

Originally posted by googlefudge
A computer is 'merely' a bunch of electrical signals going around a circuit.

But a computer can be relied upon to do maths incredibly reliably.


Our minds [generally speaking] are as trustworthy today as they were yesterday
and will be tomorrow.
If you started believing that our minds are the products of the physical workings
of our brains a ...[text shortened]... u
get to think clearly and freely about how and why you have morals and what they should
be.

A computer is 'merely' a bunch of electrical signals going around a circuit.

But a computer can be relied upon to do maths incredibly reliably.

With a good intelligent engineer/s as designers and a good intelligent programmer/s to instruct it, that's true.

Our minds [generally speaking] are as trustworthy today as they were yesterday and will be tomorrow.

Does that include the minds of believers in God also ?
Or is that suddenly different ?

If you started believing that our minds are the products of the physical workings of our brains and not the products of supernatural 'souls' then how would that actually change?

I think the free agency of a soul working in correlation with the mind is more realistic. Pure physicalism would mean no free agent but a purely determined clump of matter.

Now in reality our brains are not actually particularly trustworthy...
Which is why logic and reason are hard and take effort and why we are often so easy to fool.

Can an atheist be fooled ?

But the fact is that your rating of peoples trustworthiness is based on your
experience of their past reliability and not on them having a soul or not.
And thus your view should not shift radically if or when you should cease to believe in souls.

I don't think my personal rating of people's trustworthiness is connected them not having a soul. I see no reason to believe that.

Past behavior is past behavior of their souls.
It simply included actions by their physical bodies as well.

Similarly you would also quickly realise that your being moral has little to nothing to do with your belief in god and souls and that the only thing that changes is that you get to think clearly and freely about how and why you have morals and what they should be.

What morality ? What is moral about a carbon atom or a grain of sand ?
What is moral about two electrons zipping past each other ?
Nothing.

Originally posted by sonship

Because it's the only thing you've got.

If you are saying that I [b]OUGHT to do something, it makes no sense if my doing is merely the deterministic movement of electrons.

Why "OUGHT" there be one belief or another if my mind is nothing more than molecules fissing ?

[quote]
Molecules don't care about truth. Nor about l ...[text shortened]... t a fissing machine that knows nothing of what OUGHT to be believed because it is more rational.[/b]

I agree with this. I'm not sure why somebody would give you a thumbs down.

Maybe because he understood that you yourself don't agree with what you wrote here.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Seems you forgot one:

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]you need to explain why these thing do not exist in the brain and only in the soul for anybody to understand your answer.[/b]

There's no chance for constructive conversation whenever one or both parties are reacting and emoting, rather than listening and thinking and responding with honest questions.... in that venue conversations are productive even with argumentation.

Originally posted by sonship
Can you give me a reason why I should even trust my mind or yours if minds are only reducible to chemical reactions and movements of atoms ?

What do molecules merely in motion care about truth ?

im not sure the what the relevancy of 'trust' is in relation to the op. what is it that you do not 'trust' about chemical reactions and movement of atoms and intern what is it about souls that you 'trust' them to do?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
There's no chance for constructive conversation whenever one or both parties are reacting and emoting, rather than listening and thinking and responding with honest questions.... in that venue conversations are productive even with argumentation.

if you care about constructive conversation why not engage in conversation in your first replies? look back at your first few posts, do you think they encourage conversation?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
There's no chance for constructive conversation whenever one or both parties are reacting and emoting, rather than listening and thinking and responding with honest questions.... in that venue conversations are productive even with argumentation.

It's funny how you, of all people here, would be trying to pin this little lecture on other posters. You are perhaps one of the least "constructive" and most-likely-to-be-emotional out of all the regular posters here. The more pompous and condescending you are, the more emotional you appear to be. 🙂

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Basically that it what we all are.

Counter-intuitive and not what we would want.
But that's just tough. Suck it up!!

Basically that it what we all are.

Counter-intuitive and not what we would want.
But that's just tough. Suck it up!!

Are you the same person I was talking to a few minutes ago ?
The atoms that make up your physical being are very much different now then they were then.

So what unifies this structure to make it an enduring "you" from one minute to the next ?

As your brain states change one configuration to another what unifies these varied states to cause a "you" to endure throughout the changes ?