Spectators of New Jerusalem

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke

God creates the world, but allows man to make his own way in creation. A mother gives birth to her child, but does not own the child she creates.
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I will humor you a bit. But my reply will be related to the OP.

God desires to display His total ownership of this city. This is the same way a husband would want to display his ownership of his bride.

It is a fact that man fell out of an intimate relationship with his Creator. He came under the ownership of the Creator's law. This is why the Bible says that Christ has redeemed the saved from the curse of the law -

"Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse on our behalf; because it is written, 'Cursed is every one hanging on a tree." (Galatians 3:13)

Yes, man right out of the creative hand of God was owned by God. But man from Adam's disobedience became one usurped by God's enemy and become "owned" under the law of God.

Christ redeemed us believers on His cross out from the law of God.

My comment to your contribution leans toward my OP.

This ownership of God of this corporate entity is seen in symbolism as God writing His name upon the members of New Jerusalem. The name signifies OWNERSHIP:

"He who overcomes. him I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall by no means go out anymore,

and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God, and My new name." (Rev. 3:12)

This means OWNERSHIP by the Triune God of all the pillars of the temple of God, New Jerusalem.

Several important implications are here:

1.) Because they are the temple of God they are the place of God's dwelling. God lives in the temple of God.

2.) Because He speaks of them being pillars in the temple of God, this proves they ARE the New Jerusalem. The pillars are a part of the temple.

3.) The New Jerusalem is therefore living saints who corporately become the dwelling place of God.

4.) Because they will go out no more, the ownership is eternal. Though in the past men could wander away from God's central purpose, He secures those who will go out no more forever.

The whole verse is about the mingling of God and man.

In the same vein, we may create a forum thread, but we can not control it, we do not have ownership of it, just because we are its creator.
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True, this is not a strictly moderated Forum. And when I started this topic I suspected that some posters might even be sending PM to each other scheming how they can derail it.

But if this sounds to paranoid, at least we have an attempt already, to hijack the subject to someone's single and only discussion - Once Saved Always Saved - objections TO it.

The first 7 posts in this thread Sonship were all your own. To me that speaks more of 'spamming' of your viewpoint than a genuine desire to enter into dialogue with others.
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I do not dumb down my subject to the level that many feel more comfortable. I give readers the chance to rise up higher in their comprehension of Scripture.

Some people want every subject to be dumbed down to the level of old skeptical goodies like -

"Who did Cain marry?" or " How did Noah get animals into the ark?"

So, yes, I cannot stop people from posting whatever they wish here. We all know that.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Welcome to the wonderful world of one of sonships legendary rambling monologues. One would think that he might do better to study the manner in which Christ taught, posing view point questions, with simple succinct truths and everyday common illustrations which helped the listener draw their own conclusions. But alas no, we are subject to his edicts and decrees!

Better than your outright untruths and questionable translations.

Are you an apologist for God or an apologist for Satan?

I'm guessing you're one of the ones to whom Jesus might say "I never knew you."

Let's just see whom the atheists are agreeing with and whom they fight with. That tells me all I need to know.

Originally posted by Rajk999

By far the most important thing pertaining to the New Jerusalem is HOW DOES ONE GET IN.
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The gates of the New Jerusalem are made of pearl. Each of the 12 gates is of a single pearl.

This is symbolic. There is no huge oyster the size of Godzilla that will produce such large pearls.

The sign is that Jesus Christ came to the earth as coming to the bottom of a sea - a sea of sin and death.

As a oyster is wounded by some particle of sand and secrets a liquid around it, producing a pearl, the picture speaks of Christ's work. On the cross we wounded Him with our sins. He poured out His life for us and even more around us.

The pearl gate speaks of our entrance into the city through the pouring out of Christ's life for us and around us who wounded Him in His redemptive death on Calvary.

If not for Christ's death and resurrection we could not enter into the New Jerusalem.

"And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was, respectively, of one pearl." (Rev. 21:21a)

Originally posted by Suzianne
Isn't this what you are trying to do?

I don't think it is unreasonable to tell someone they are being unreasonable.

To try and dictate what others post is unreasonable. To tell them that frankly, not so much.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Isn't this what you are trying to do?

Of course it isn't! GoD is pointing out to sonship that he can't do this. Why don't you pause for 5 minutes from thumbing up every one of sonship's posts.

Originally posted by divegeester
Of course it isn't! GoD is pointing out to sonship that he can't do this. Why don't you pause for 5 minutes from thumbing up every one of sonship's posts.

And why can't sonship do this? Because "GoAD" says so?


I've done the same thing in threads, requesting that people try to stick to the topic instead of spouting nonsense. Frankly, it didn't work then, either, but nobody actually stood up and said I was being unreasonable.

Don't attack him for this when your beef with him is actually something else.

Originally posted by Suzianne
And why can't sonship do this? Because "Go[b]AD" says so?


I've done the same thing in threads, requesting that people try to stick to the topic instead of spouting nonsense. Frankly, it didn't work then, either, but nobody actually stood up and said I was being unreasonable.

Don't attack him for this when your beef with him is actually something else.[/b]

I'm not attacking anyone except you, if you want to call it that. GoD is making a fair challenge to sonship who is trying to limit the posting in this thread. All threads especially long ones take on many sub plots. Just because you and sonship have a relationship doesn't mean GoD is wrong and you are right.

Originally posted by divegeester
Of course it isn't! GoD is pointing out to sonship that he can't do this. Why don't you pause for 5 minutes from thumbing up every one of sonship's posts.

This thing about thumbing. For some reason I never seem to glance over there to see thumbs up or down.

It just never meant too much to me, like monikers and little graphic faces. I'm an old fashion Internet user maybe.

Originally posted by sonship
This thing about thumbing. For some reason I never seem to glance over there to see thumbs up or down.

It just never meant too much to me, like monikers and little graphic faces. Old fashion maybe.

It means little to me either. But Suzianne is one of the "phantom thumbers".

Originally posted by divegeester
It means little to me either. But Suzianne is one of the "phantom thumbers".

I will have to go back and see what your post was.

Okay folks. I'll let others say something about the spectators to that wonderful conclusion of the Bible in Revelation 21 and 22.

Your turn.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm not attacking anyone except you, if you want to call it that. GoD is making a fair challenge to sonship who is trying to limit the posting in this thread. All threads especially long ones take on many sub plots. Just because you and sonship have a relationship doesn't mean GoD is wrong and you are right.

"Don't attack him for this when your beef with him is actually something else."

Originally posted by Suzianne
Better than your outright untruths and questionable translations.

Are you an apologist for God or an apologist for Satan?

I'm guessing you're one of the ones to whom Jesus might say "I never knew you."

Let's just see whom the atheists are agreeing with and whom they fight with. That tells me all I need to know.

You have no way of knowing what an accurate translation is and what is not. you are arguing from a position of ignorance. You have also not once ever proven that any of my beliefs are untrue. no not on a single occasions making your assertion of untruths a simple barefaced lie. You think that you can speak for Christ? he gave a very apt illustration for people like you,

“And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. ‘And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’

“But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. ‘Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. ‘Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’

You might hide your love away but others are far more open and brave than a wussbag like you.

Originally posted by sonship
This thing about thumbing. For some reason I never seem to glance over there to see thumbs up or down.

It just never meant too much to me, like monikers and little graphic faces. I'm an old fashion Internet user maybe.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's the kind of issue people bring up when they have nothing of value left to say.

Like "Look! Over there behind you!"

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You have no way of knowing what an accurate translation is and what is not. you are arguing from a position of ignorance. You have also not once ever proven that any of my beliefs are untrue. no not on a single occasions making your assertion of untruths a simple barefaced lie. You think that you can speak for Christ? he gave a very apt illustratio ...[text shortened]...

You might hide your love away but others are far more open and brave than a wussbag like you.

So you count your value to God by how many people you can lead astray from him (meaning into the JW church)?

Wow. Go figure. No wonder he'll say to you, "Depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

I only hide my love away from those who do not deserve it. Not casting pearls before swine. You calling me a "wussbag" only means I must be doing something right. I don't recall any atheists here ever agreeing with me. You (and far too many other "Christians" here) cannot say that.