1. Cape Town
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    11 Apr '16 12:43
    In another thread checkbaiter says:
    "Like the flood. If God had not acted, there would not have been a true bloodline to bring about the Messiah."

    This got me thinking: how many people here believe that anything spiritual is inherited. I know that many people believe 'original sin' is inherited and some are very specific having it inherited via the sperm.

    What about general guilt? If my father commits a crime, am I in any way partially responsible purely because I am descended from him?

    What about group responsibility? Am I partially responsible for anything my ancestral group (the British / Europeans) did hundreds of years ago? Am I partially responsible for anything Zambia (my nationality) does now, despite my not having lived there for over 10 years? Is there anything spiritual about such responsibility relationships?

    Are the Jews special, and if so does descent matter ie if someone becomes Jewish by conversion are they equivalent to any other Jew?

    Did Jesus' ancestry matter other than it having been prophesied? ie Did David have special genes, or was it just because God promised David a reward or something?
  2. Standard memberRBHILL
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    11 Apr '16 13:27
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    In another thread checkbaiter says:
    "Like the flood. If God had not acted, there would not have been a true bloodline to bring about the Messiah."

    This got me thinking: how many people here believe that anything spiritual is inherited. I know that many people believe 'original sin' is inherited and some are very specific having it inherited via the sp ...[text shortened]... e Did David have special genes, or was it just because God promised David a reward or something?
    The Jews on a special anybody else. God wanted to destroy the Jews and start over with Moses but Moses intervened
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    11 Apr '16 13:42
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    The Jews on a special anybody else. God wanted to destroy the Jews and start over with Moses but Moses intervened
    What?
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    11 Apr '16 13:441 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    In another thread checkbaiter says:
    "Like the flood. If God had not acted, there would not have been a true bloodline to bring about the Messiah."

    This got me thinking: how many people here believe that anything spiritual is inherited. I know that many people believe 'original sin' is inherited and some are very specific having it inherited via the sp ...[text shortened]... e Did David have special genes, or was it just because God promised David a reward or something?
    There are some scriptures talking about "the sins of the fathers" but later scripture countermands them. I don't believe anything is passed on.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Apr '16 13:49
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What?
    😀 .. RBH is a comedian.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Apr '16 13:51
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    The Jews on a special anybody else. God wanted to destroy the Jews and start over with Moses but Moses intervened
    I think you are trying to say that the Jews are not more special than anybody else.

    The prophets says otherwise.
    Paul says otherwise.

    Let me know if you want some references
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    11 Apr '16 14:54
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    In another thread checkbaiter says:
    "Like the flood. If God had not acted, there would not have been a true bloodline to bring about the Messiah."

    This got me thinking: how many people here believe that anything spiritual is inherited. I know that many people believe 'original sin' is inherited and some are very specific having it inherited via the sp ...[text shortened]... e Did David have special genes, or was it just because God promised David a reward or something?
    "This got me thinking: how many people here believe that anything spiritual is inherited. I know that many people believe 'original sin' is inherited and some are very specific having it inherited via the sperm."

    I'm certain you would agree that man is genetically linked to the past. We have "inherited" our genetics. If there is more to us, like the spiritual, then it must also be inherited as well. Seems logical doesn't it? If that's true, and looking at it from the perspective of the whole, then we, the whole human race, are the recipients of our collective inheritance, both physically and spiritually.

    "What about general guilt? If my father commits a crime, am I in any way partially responsible purely because I am descended from him?"

    No. Each individual is accountable for his or her own guilt. That's not to say we don't experience some level of shame associated with our parents behaviors. The same as we "feel" shame over our children's missteps. Culpability is a complicated matter.

    "What about group responsibility? Am I partially responsible for anything my ancestral group (the British / Europeans) did hundreds of years ago? Am I partially responsible for anything Zambia (my nationality) does now, despite my not having lived there for over 10 years? Is there anything spiritual about such responsibility relationships?"

    Only if and when one is an active participant in atrocities committed by the whole group. Otherwise one's associations by national or ethnic origins doesn't make one guilty for crimes committed by one's ancestral relationships.

    "Are the Jews special, and if so does descent matter ie if someone becomes Jewish by conversion are they equivalent to any other Jew?"

    This is a bit more complicated. My understanding is like this; one is an Israelite by national origin, and a Hebrew by race, and a Jew according to religion. One can be an Israelite by birth or by application of citizenship and not be a Jew. Or one can be a Jew based on conversion and not be a Hebrew by race. And so on.

    It is my understanding that Abraham became the progenitor of the Hebrew race and the father of "many nations". Later, with Moses did the Jewish "religion" and nation of Israel begin.

    What made the "Jews" "special" was that they were the recipients of the oracles of God. That status remains, but now, since the resurrection of Jesus, all are accepted equally by God through the Son regardless of race or national origin.

    "Did Jesus' ancestry matter other than it having been prophesied? ie Did David have special genes, or was it just because God promised David a reward or something?"

    Jesus' genetic inheritance is in direct line from God. One of satan's plans of attack against the will of God was to disrupt the genetic code from Adam because he knew that God had promised a saviour through Adam's descendants. You know the story. Some angels had intermingled with the daughters of men in an attempt to destroy the blood line. It got so bad that God had to destroy the entire human race except for Noah and seven others. But not for that reason alone.

    Angels, according to the Biblicall narrative, are exclusively male. They are not human. The introduction of angelic "seed" into the human race was an attempt by satan to outwit God. It failed. As did all his attempts to dethrone the only One qualified to be Lord. Jesus lives!
  8. Cape Town
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    11 Apr '16 15:06
    Originally posted by josephw
    I'm certain you would agree that man is genetically linked to the past. We have "inherited" our genetics. If there is more to us, like the spiritual, then it must also be inherited as well. Seems logical doesn't it? If that's true, and looking at it from the perspective of the whole, then we, the whole human race, are the recipients of our collective inheritance, both physically and spiritually.
    Well actually the whole 'soul' concept doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I agree that spiritual properties could be inherited, but I disagree that it is obviously so. Many people believe that the soul is imparted by God to a child either at conception or at birth or some intermediary stage. Certainly the known workings of inheritance don't really leave much room for spiritual properties being inherited.

    Angels, according to the Biblicall narrative, are exclusively male. They are not human. The introduction of angelic "seed" into the human race was an attempt by satan to outwit God. It failed. As did all his attempts to dethrone the only One qualified to be Lord. Jesus lives!
    You don't really answer my question. I am asking about Jesus's descent from David. It seemed important to the gospel writers. Descent from Noah or Adam seems pretty obvious and doesn't require a family tree.
  9. Cape Town
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    11 Apr '16 15:07
    On the note of original sin, I have seen posters in the past say things along the lines of 'we rebelled against God' essentially saying that we all collectively chose to eat the apple in the garden of Eden and are all collectively responsible. Does anyone here feel at least partially responsible for the apple eating event?
  10. Standard memberRBHILL
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    11 Apr '16 15:30
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What?
    Do you not remember God wanted to destroy them for making the golden calf?

    http://analytictheology.com/2006/12/why-did-god-call-the-jews-a-stiff-necked-people/
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    11 Apr '16 17:37
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    Do you not remember God wanted to destroy them for making the golden calf?

    http://analytictheology.com/2006/12/why-did-god-call-the-jews-a-stiff-necked-people/
    They were Hebrews, not Jews.
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    11 Apr '16 21:03
    Sounds like more of a Hindu thing
  13. Standard memberRBHILL
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    11 Apr '16 22:56
    Originally posted by divegeester
    They were Hebrews, not Jews.
    Same thing
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    12 Apr '16 11:47
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Well actually the whole 'soul' concept doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I agree that spiritual properties could be inherited, but I disagree that it is obviously so. Many people believe that the soul is imparted by God to a child either at conception or at birth or some intermediary stage. Certainly the known workings of inheritance don't really l ...[text shortened]... ospel writers. Descent from Noah or Adam seems pretty obvious and doesn't require a family tree.
    Regarding the "soul", the Bible says that God formed man out of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living soul. There's no denying man has a body, but according to the manufacturer's handbook man has a spirit, and the soul is at his core. As best I understand it the soul is the singular identifying feature of who we are. We are living souls. Personally I believe a "living soul" exists at conception.

    Why is it important to you that Jesus descended from David? The record is clear that Jesus is descended from God. Why is His descent from David more significant to you? The record of Jesus' lineage all the way back to God is required as proof of the ligitimate right of Jesus' status as King and Messiah according to the promises of God.
  15. Cape Town
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    12 Apr '16 12:29
    Originally posted by josephw
    Why is it important to you that Jesus descended from David?
    It isn't. It was clearly important to the gospel writers and I was wondering what people thought the reason for that was.

    The record is clear that Jesus is descended from God.
    Well presumably that goes without saying.

    The record of Jesus' lineage all the way back to God is required as proof of the ligitimate right of Jesus' status as King and Messiah according to the promises of God.
    So are you saying that some of us aren't descended from God?
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