Originally posted by JS357 If every idea except that one has a denotation, then it follows from what you say that every idea except that one is Mayic. Is that the case?
You mention a world of objects and a world of ideas. I want to ask if there a third world, or a world that includes ideas as a subset, that could be called the world of thoughts. I will mention two examples: the thou ...[text shortened]... philosophy? It feels like something very basic is being hinted at when I think about this.
Sorry for a late reply. As far as Hindu philosophy goes, all objects and ideas except God are Mayic or delusional in nature. I am still doing some digging up reg. your query about the World wherein ideas will be a subset.
Originally posted by JS357 If every idea except that one has a denotation, then it follows from what you say that every idea except that one is Mayic. Is that the case?
You mention a world of objects and a world of ideas. I want to ask if there a third world, or a world that includes ideas as a subset, that could be called the world of thoughts. I will mention two examples: the thou ...[text shortened]... philosophy? It feels like something very basic is being hinted at when I think about this.
Are you thinking of a world where Ideas will be the ' Fundamental Reality ' ? If so, you are thinking like Kant, the German philosopher.
Originally posted by rvsakhadeo Are you thinking of a world where Ideas will be the ' Fundamental Reality ' ? If so, you are thinking like Kant, the German philosopher.
Ideas as entities of some sort, or experiences as events of some sort. Entities exist, events happen. Instead of Descartes's "I think, therefore I am," I like "Thinking is happening, therefore ... thinking is happening." But solipsism is avoided by noticing the stubbornness of some ideas and considering them to be other, on that basis.
Originally posted by JS357 Ideas as entities of some sort, or experiences as events of some sort. Entities exist, events happen. Instead of Descartes's "I think, therefore I am," I like "Thinking is happening, therefore ... thinking is happening." But solipsism is avoided by noticing the stubbornness of some ideas and considering them to be other, on that basis.
Enough rambling...
There is a lot in common among hindu philosophers of Advait Vedant school and Kant. Both say that a good part of every object comprises of perceptions and understanding. We know objects after they are transformed into ideas. Pl.refer to Will Durant's book ' story of philosophy '.
Originally posted by JS357 Ideas as entities of some sort, or experiences as events of some sort. Entities exist, events happen. Instead of Descartes's "I think, therefore I am," I like "Thinking is happening, therefore ... thinking is happening." But solipsism is avoided by noticing the stubbornness of some ideas and considering them to be other, on that basis.
Enough rambling...
Kant also says that space,time and cause are ' Modes of Perception and Conception '. Hence free will,soul,God being noumenal or conjectural cannot be proved by modes of perceptions or conceptions.
Originally posted by JS357 Ideas as entities of some sort, or experiences as events of some sort. Entities exist, events happen. Instead of Descartes's "I think, therefore I am," I like "Thinking is happening, therefore ... thinking is happening." But solipsism is avoided by noticing the stubbornness of some ideas and considering them to be other, on that basis.
Enough rambling...
The Brihadaranyak Upanishad,one of the important upanishads, says that God is 'not this, not this ' in its search for a Denotation for the term God.
Originally posted by JS357 What do you say to "...experience is all that exists and all that exists is experience..." Some add ...and existence itself."
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/James/TaylorWoz.htm
I'd say its a good a quote as the reader is able to make out. So it's a good quote, but lacks something.
(took me awhile to answer this, so we may have lost the flow here)
daisychainsaw , where are you?
What do you have to say about these developments from JS357 and Taoman and rvsakhadeo?
Anything ring a bell?
Originally posted by rvsakhadeo Kant also says that space,time and cause are ' Modes of Perception and Conception '. Hence free will,soul,God being noumenal or conjectural cannot be proved by modes of perceptions or conceptions.
I had an inorganic chemistry professor who said that we rationalize our experiences -- he went on to say, we make them rational -- by assigning structuring theories that fit them. (Out of an entire semester, I have that one memory.) But underlying that assignment are the experiences, which, for all we know, manifest only themselves, without there being any structuring theory. Taking Renoir's Dance at Le Moulin de la Galette as an example, it is as if all we have are the blobs of paint on a canvas, or pixels on the screen, and we provide what it takes to see it as a representational depiction. Try NOT to see people having a nice day.
Originally posted by JS357 I had an inorganic chemistry professor who said that we rationalize our experiences -- he went on to say, we make them rational -- by assigning structuring theories that fit them. (Out of an entire semester, I have that one memory.) But underlying that assignment are the experiences, which, for all we know, manifest only themselves, without there being any str ...[text shortened]... ce day.
Originally posted by JS357 I had an inorganic chemistry professor who said that we rationalize our experiences -- he went on to say, we make them rational -- by assigning structuring theories that fit them. (Out of an entire semester, I have that one memory.) But underlying that assignment are the experiences, which, for all we know, manifest only themselves, without there being any str ...[text shortened]... ce day.
I saw the painting on the net,said to be the 5th costliest painting ever, as sold by auction. Saw the painting as a whole,because that is how my mind integrated the blobs of paint,probably preconditioned to do so when you referred to it as a painting.
Mind is a processor that moulds our conceptions. The raw material for the Mind is the continuing rain of sensory stimuli that come rushing in via the eyes,ears,skin,tongue and the nose. The stimuli are sifted through and arranged by this powerful processor.Well, everybody knows that.This has been said in every philosophy/science book from even days of yonder.Mind tries( or Mind is built to make sense ) to make sense-like the BBC used to say. The ability to make sense out of chaos is probably unique among humans.But in the language of Science,where is this Mind ? How is it driven ? How does it access stored ideas and compares them with the current set of stimuli and the how does it decide relevance? How does it make a judgement regarding truth and falsity ? Why it goes blank as when one is facing a calamity unexpectedly or a great personal tragedy and so on ?( Of course, certain individuals retain their mental faculties even in such crises etc.)A computer requires a code and an encoding software and a decoding software.In the masses of brain cells,what actually happens-does Science claim to have solved all these matters satisfactorily ?
Originally posted by rvsakhadeo I saw the painting on the net,said to be the 5th costliest painting ever, as sold by auction. Saw the painting as a whole,because that is how my mind integrated the blobs of paint,probably preconditioned to do so when you referred to it as a painting.
Mind is a processor that moulds our conceptions. The raw material for the Mind is the continuing rain o ...[text shortened]... cells,what actually happens-does Science claim to have solved all these matters satisfactorily ?
It's interesting how when you see some completely abstract art, how your mind will see faces and other common daily visuals in a work that is just paint splattered on canvas (for example).
The individual mind is conditioned to recognize similarities that relate to it's own preconcieved ideas. What is really "out there"? Just paint splattered on canvas, right?
Originally posted by karoly aczel It's interesting how when you see some completely abstract art, how your mind will see faces and other common daily visuals in a work that is just paint splattered on canvas (for example).
The individual mind is conditioned to recognize similarities that relate to it's own preconcieved ideas. What is really "out there"? Just paint splattered on canvas, right?
Very true!
External Reality is a construct of the mind but the Hindus do say that although dynamic and changeable,it does have an existence,practically speaking. After all, the reading of the" blobs" i.e. their interpretation is more or less the same in all humans and to an extent in non-human living beings. Hindus equate Life to a story written upon water by fingers,vanishing as soon as it is written.
Incidentally the Renoir painting was not an abstract but a straight forward painting of Parisians gathered to dance under the glaring lights of the dancing/eating joint.
12 Apr '11 10:37
Spirituality and the Existence of Spirits
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