1. Standard memberRed Night
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    22 Dec '07 20:52
    I notice that once one becomes a "believer" they set out to convince others of the effficacy of their "beliefs"

    I wonder is this an effort to proselytize or merely an effort to convince others they are right and in so doing to convince themselves.

    It is particularly striking when watching the "believers" in the god of atheism preaching the gospel of darwin and the dogma of science.
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    22 Dec '07 21:10
    Convincing other people of your beliefs is a logical thing to do one way or the other:

    If you believe that people will go to hell unless they find Jesus in this world it's morally responsible to convince people to do so.

    If you believe that too many people, including government officials, are following a non-sensical 2000 year old fairy tale it's reasonable to desire an end to it so that people base decisions on reality.
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    22 Dec '07 21:11
    It's human nature to seek out like minded individuals. The Idea put forward isn't really important; religious, scientific or otherwise.
  4. Donationkirksey957
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    22 Dec '07 23:17
    Originally posted by Red Night
    I notice that once one becomes a "believer" they set out to convince others of the effficacy of their "beliefs"

    I wonder is this an effort to proselytize or merely an effort to convince others they are right and in so doing to convince themselves.

    It is particularly striking when watching the "believers" in the god of atheism preaching the gospel of darwin and the dogma of science.
    You tell me.
  5. Standard memberRed Night
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    23 Dec '07 01:21
    Originally posted by The Dude 84
    Convincing other people of your beliefs is a logical thing to do one way or the other:

    If you believe that people will go to hell unless they find Jesus in this world it's morally responsible to convince people to do so.

    If you believe that too many people, including government officials, are following a non-sensical 2000 year old fairy tale it's reasonable to desire an end to it so that people base decisions on reality.
    Exactly my point! Why do "believers" in the christian god, allah, and the god of atheism feel compelled to enforce their beliefs on others?
  6. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    23 Dec '07 01:30
    Originally posted by Red Night
    Exactly my point! Why do "believers" in the christian god, allah, and the god of atheism feel compelled to enforce their beliefs on others?
    Last time I saw it, Atheists weren't trying to force prayer in schools, nor were they trying to put religion in the science classroom.

    As an atheist, I have no problem with religion being taught. Heck, I don't even have a problem with private, religious schools (provided they do not compromise educational standards, and try to educate, rather than indoctrinate). I do have a problem when overtly religious people try using a legal approach to try and change educational standards to suit theological tastes.
  7. Donationbbarr
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    23 Dec '07 01:35
    Originally posted by Red Night
    Exactly my point! Why do "believers" in the christian god, allah, and the god of atheism feel compelled to enforce their beliefs on others?
    "God of atheism"? You do know what the term 'atheism' means, don't you?
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    23 Dec '07 01:41
    Originally posted by Red Night
    I notice that once one becomes a "believer" they set out to convince others of the effficacy of their "beliefs"

    I wonder is this an effort to proselytize or merely an effort to convince others they are right and in so doing to convince themselves.

    It is particularly striking when watching the "believers" in the god of atheism preaching the gospel of darwin and the dogma of science.
    Why does one care about anytbing? Where your heart is that is where your thoughts will be as well.
  9. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    23 Dec '07 01:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why does one care about anytbing? Where your heart is that is where your thoughts will be as well.
    I agree with the point, but would debate the anatomy!
  10. Standard memberRed Night
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    23 Dec '07 04:171 edit
    Originally posted by bbarr
    "God of atheism"? You do know what the term 'atheism' means, don't you?
    Of course I do.

    But the "belief" in no God is still a belief...a belief in a god that does nothing.

    A true non-believer would be agnostic..uncertain what he believed in.

    Someone who "believes" in no god, "Believes" in a god that does nothing...a god that is tied up in the irrational "belief" that we have discovered all of the science that runs the universe.
  11. Donationbbarr
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    23 Dec '07 04:371 edit
    Originally posted by Red Night
    Of course I do.

    But the "belief" in no God is still a belief...a belief in a god that does nothing.

    A true non-believer would be agnostic..uncertain what he believed in.

    Someone who "believes" in no god, "Believes" in a god that does nothing...a god that is tied up in the irrational "belief" that we have discovered all of the science that runs the universe.
    No. The belief of an atheist like me takes this form:

    ~Ex (Gx)

    Roughly: "It is not the case that there exists something of which the term 'God' is properly predicable".
  12. Standard memberRed Night
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    23 Dec '07 05:071 edit
    Originally posted by bbarr
    No. The belief of an atheist like me takes this form:

    ~Ex (Gx)

    Roughly: "It is not the case that there exists something of which the term 'God' is properly predicable".
    It depends how you define God. I see you as a believer in atheism. Belief entails a belief in something.

    You choose to define your God as an entity that does not correspond with the traditional judeo-christian or islamic notion, but rather as entity that is tied up in the science of creation.

    I don't have a problem with that, you are free to believe what you like.
  13. Donationbbarr
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    23 Dec '07 05:12
    Originally posted by Red Night
    It depends how you define God. I see you as a believer in atheism. Belief entails a belief in something.
    No, belief does not entail a belief in something if by "something" you mean an entity or object. Belief entails merely that you take some proposition to be true.
  14. Standard memberRed Night
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    23 Dec '07 05:181 edit
    Originally posted by bbarr
    No, belief does not entail a belief in something if by "something" you mean an entity or object. Belief entails merely that you take some proposition to be true.
    I define God as an entity that is beyond description or understanding.

    Having said that, his existence or non-existence (on the material plane) could take any form or no form.

    I don't know you or what you believe, but what I see most atheists saying on this forum is that their god takes no form and does nothing...still a god in my mind. The dogma is that of science...science that is no more exact or perfect today than in the days of Ptolemy, Aristotle, Copernicus, Newton, or Darwin. It is merely imprecise dogma and belief...the god (or non-god) of atheism.
    The belief system is still there. The dogma is still there. The god is still there only in a form that lacks substance.
  15. Standard memberDavid C
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    23 Dec '07 05:20
    Originally posted by Red Night
    It is particularly striking when watching the "believers" in the god of atheism preaching the gospel of darwin and the dogma of science.
    There is no "god" of atheism, a "gospel" of Darwin, or "dogma" of science. You are obviously confused. *Not* believing in something is not a belief, it is a rejection of a proposition, for whatever reason. Hope that helps.
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