Starlight

Originally posted by Suzianne
There are stars that are billions of light years away. How can we see these?

Why can we see ANY star further away than 6,000 lys, if the universe is only 6,000 years old?

We see them with our eyes. You apparently do not believe the Genesis account that God worked to create the heavens and the earth and all that are in them in six days and rested from His work on the seventh day. Have faith my dear lady.

The Instructor

There are several ideas that tries to use science to explain how the starlight is seen in a young earth. There is the idea from the Holy Bible that the heavens were stretch out. This idea may be related to the idea that light may have traveled faster in the beginning of creation.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/08/light-traveled-faster-in-the-early-universe-todays-most-popular.html

Another theory is Riemannian space and geometry whereas space is curved, and not based on the Euclidean straight line theory. This idea, if true, shows that the most distant starlight could mathematically reach us in 20 years.

http://www.icr.org/article/214/

Another idea is the gravitational time dilation theory of Dr. Russell Humphreys.

http://www.icr.org/article/446/

YouTube

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
We see them with our eyes. You apparently do not believe the Genesis account that God worked to create the heavens and the earth and all that are in them in six days and rested from His work on the seventh day. Have faith my dear lady.

The Instructor

No. The six days of creation in Genesis are CLEARLY not six 24-hour days.

When will you stop confining God to your little box of ignorance?

Having faith doesn't mean I have to be STUPID.

Clearly, you disagree.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No. The six days of creation in Genesis are CLEARLY not six 24-hour days.

When will you stop confining God to your little box of ignorance?

Having faith doesn't mean I have to be STUPID.

Clearly, you disagree.

Clearly? It is only clearly if you believe God is unable to do it just it was
said it occurred in scripture.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Clearly? It is only clearly if you believe God is unable to do it just it was
said it occurred in scripture.
Kelly

why do you insist that if god is able to do all things, he is therefore able to do stupid things, and even required to do them.

instead of making god do some incredibly convoluted, complex actions to achieve a simple task, just to be in sync with a 4000 year old text written by a stone age (ish) person, wouldn't it be more logical to assume that text is badly written, badly translated ?

god created the entire reality out of nothingness and you believe it diminishes his awesomeness if he made it through a 14 billion years period instead of 6 days? that he made it through a logical process, that is consistent, instead of a chain of events that is illogical, contradicts itself and leaves countless questions that can only be answered with "god did it".

Originally posted by KellyJay
Clearly? It is only clearly if you believe God is unable to do it just it was
said it occurred in scripture.
Kelly

No, it doesn't say that. Only the most literal, unimaginative people can read Genesis and say "wow, six 24-hour days, huh". *It does not say that.*

Confining God to your own understanding, which can be limited, limits God.

Unable to do it? What are you talking about?

Why WOULD God do it in 144 hours? Isn't a thousand years like a day to God? Was he on a timetable? Were his supervisors looking over his shoulder demanding results? Please.

Why wouldn't God rather set up the universe like a series of dominoes and then start it all off with a Big Bang? Using natural physics and natural processes removes the "god effect" and makes it possible to believe it all happened without God. Thus free will is maintained and we still have a choice unmarred by "facts" to believe in God or not. Why would God "wave his magic wand" and *poof!* there it all is, fully formed? For one, the facts of observation deny this, and two, if we ever discovered proof that it really did happen this way, the jig would be up. God would be proved, and free will goes out the window.

So saying I believe God is "unable to do that" is missing the point by a wide margin. I say the YECs believe God could ONLY have done it using magic, which is blatantly false. God is not that small to be confined to ONLY being able to do it that way. Sheesh, why can't you guys give God some credit?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
why do you insist that if god is able to do all things, he is therefore able to do stupid things, and even required to do them.

instead of making god do some incredibly convoluted, complex actions to achieve a simple task, just to be in sync with a 4000 year old text written by a stone age (ish) person, wouldn't it be more logical to assume that text i ...[text shortened]... , contradicts itself and leaves countless questions that can only be answered with "god did it".

Precisely.

Finally, one less caveman in the group.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No. The six days of creation in Genesis are CLEARLY not six 24-hour days.

When will you stop confining God to your little box of ignorance?

Having faith doesn't mean I have to be STUPID.

Clearly, you disagree.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

(Romans 1:20-25 NKJV)

The apostle Paul says it is "clearly seen" from the creation. However, the Evilutionists claim God's part in creation is not clearly seen. Who are you going to believe?

In another thread I pointed out that polonium halos in granite points to the fact that granite, a foundation stone, had to form in less than 3 minutes. I think that shows God's hand in a quick creation of earth.

The programming language information code in DNA also points to God as the supreme programmer for no one else that I can imagine could have put those instructions there.

I do not want you to be ignorant or STUPID. That is why I try to put forth logical information to support the truth of scripture. If the hand of God can not be clearly seen in His creations, then why should anyone believe in an old book that reveals God as the creator?

The Instructor

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, it doesn't say that. Only the most literal, unimaginative people can read Genesis and say "wow, six 24-hour days, huh". *It does not say that.*

Confining God to your own understanding, which can be limited, limits God.

Unable to do it? What are you talking about?

Why WOULD God do it in 144 hours? Isn't a thousand years like a day to ...[text shortened]... confined to ONLY being able to do it that way. Sheesh, why can't you guys give God some credit?

Isn't a day like a thousand years to God? Why should God waste a thousand years of time, when He could do it in a day? Evening and morning clearly indicates a 24-hour day to me. One does not use evening and morning to describe a thousand years. Put on your thinking cap, my dear.

The Instructor

Originally posted by Suzianne
Precisely.

Finally, one less caveman in the group.

At least us cavemen know enough to get in out of the rain.

The Instructor

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, it doesn't say that. Only the most literal, unimaginative people can read Genesis and say "wow, six 24-hour days, huh". *It does not say that.*

Confining God to your own understanding, which can be limited, limits God.

Unable to do it? What are you talking about?

Why WOULD God do it in 144 hours? Isn't a thousand years like a day to ...[text shortened]... confined to ONLY being able to do it that way. Sheesh, why can't you guys give God some credit?

Yes to God the passing of a thousand years is no different than a passing of
a day, time is meaningless to God who is eternal; however, when we see
words in scripture that has meaning, I'll stay with the meaning expressed
and not try to twist it to mean something other than what is written.

So why would God be limited to six days? I also don't see why you think
God creating the universe a billion years ago is any less magic than if He
did it thousand years ago, at some point be it billions or thousand of years
ago God is going to be making something out of nothing. I give God credit
for doing what the scripture says, I'm not the one suggesting it is a lie or
a twisted version of the truth.
Kelly

Originally posted by Suzianne
Precisely.

Finally, one less caveman in the group.

Was that meant to be an insult towards me for disagreeing with you?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'll stay with the meaning expressed and not try to twist it to mean something other than what is written.

Except that the 'meaning expressed' does not make sense, so you have no choice than to do some twisting.
There cannot be days without the sun, and even then, days, mornings, evenings are only relevant to a given time zone. So if God makes fish on a certain day, is there wall at the dateline with fish on one side and only 24 hours later fish on the other side? What happens if some careless fish swims across the dateline and finds himself existing the day before fish were created?

Well let's see, at least one of the following two statements must be true:

S1) A Genesis "day" is not 24 hours, but much longer.
S2) In the beginning the speed of light was something much greater than c.

Either days were longer or light was faster. Let's figure it out, folks! Did the language change, or the physics, or both? What's a royally bored omnipotent entity more likely to twiddle with?

Originally posted by Soothfast
Well let's see, at least one of the following two statements must be true:

S1) A Genesis "day" is not 24 hours, but much longer.
S2) In the beginning the speed of light was something much greater than c.

Either days were longer or light was faster. Let's figure it out, folks! Did the language change, or the physics, or both? What's a royally bored omnipotent entity more likely to twiddle with?

Why would God be limited to just creating a star and not the light as well?
God isn't limited as we are, if He were to make a watch he would not be
forced to mold all the pieces then put them together, He could just make
the watch. He spoke and the things appeared, why would God who could
do that be limited in anyway to create a sign that could be seen no matter
the distance if that was the intent as soon as He made it?
Kelly