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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Subscriber Tom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
    24 May '18 00:05
    The "true" agnostic (with respect to Christianity specifically) claims something along these lines: "I don't make a claim for or against the existence of God because we couldn't possibly know, even if He did exist.

    Is this a fair statement, before I proceed? Serious question.
  2. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    24 May '18 00:30
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    The "true" agnostic (with respect to Christianity specifically) claims something along these lines: "I don't make a claim for or against the existence of God because we couldn't possibly know, even if He did exist.

    Is this a fair statement, before I proceed? Serious question.
    I don’t think that’s a fair or accurate statement at all because we can know God exists, albeit not through carnal means. I think investigating and examining the evidence for Jesus Christ’s Resurrection can cause us to strongly consider the possibility, and then reading the Bible and praying can cause us to connect with God on a spiritual level (because God, after all, is a Spirit) which removes all doubt.

    We can know God exists, but we have to be willing to consider the possibility from a position of humility (realizing we don’t know everything or even a fraction of what there is to know) and to have an open mind and open heart.

    Seek God in humility, sincerity and truth, and He will respond. (But don’t give up if He hasn’t responded in five minutes!)
  3. Subscriber Tom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
    24 May '18 00:33
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    I don’t think that’s a fair or accurate statement at all because we can know God exists, albeit not through carnal means. I think investigating and examining the evidence for Jesus Christ’s Resurrection can cause us to strongly consider the possibility, and then reading the Bible and praying can cause us to connect with God on a spiritual level (because ...[text shortened]... rity and truth, and He will respond. (But don’t give up if He hasn’t responded in five minutes!)
    Sorry brother, but what I meant was.. is my statement a fair assessment of the pure agnostic position?
  4. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    24 May '18 02:00
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Sorry brother, but what I meant was.. is my statement a fair assessment of the pure agnostic position?
    Sorry for misunderstanding your question.

    Knowing what you meant, I would say that is a fair reflection of an agnostic’s position.
  5. Subscriber Tom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
    24 May '18 03:30 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Sorry for misunderstanding your question.

    Knowing what you meant, I would say that is a fair reflection of an agnostic’s position.
    Ok so. The simple refutation is, if God does exist, then there is no reason whatsoever to conclude we can't know. If an omnipotent God exists, of course it's possible He could (and would) open lines of communication. Therefore, the agnostic, claiming we can't know, is wrong... if God exists. So in order for the agnostic not to make a self-contradictory claim, he/she can only allow for the nonexistence of God. And there goes the agnosticism, straight into strong Atheism.

    So the agnostic "we can't know" claim forces the agnostic into an atheist. The safe position for an agnostic is to simply say "I personally don't know either way." Undecided. A fence sitter. And that's why atheist types avoid associating themselves with agnosticism. It's factually a position of ignorance.
  6. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    24 May '18 03:49
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    If an omnipotent God exists, of course it's possible He could (and would) open lines of communication.
    Can you provide us with clear examples of where God has communicated with us? (other than what the bible claims)

    Most folks today who claim the lord has spoken to them get sent to the loonie bin.
  7. 24 May '18 04:43
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    The "true" agnostic (with respect to Christianity specifically) claims something along these lines: "I don't make a claim for or against the existence of God because we couldn't possibly know, even if He did exist.

    Is this a fair statement, before I proceed? Serious question.
    There are two flavors, or so I have read.

    We do not know.
    We cannot know.
  8. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    24 May '18 04:50
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    The "true" agnostic (with respect to Christianity specifically) claims something along these lines: "I don't make a claim for or against the existence of God because we couldn't possibly know, even if He did exist.

    Is this a fair statement, before I proceed? Serious question.
    I am an Agnostic and, "I do not know if their exists a god or gods."
    Your capitalization of "god" and "he" is not something an Agnostic would do.
  9. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    24 May '18 05:51
    Originally posted by @caissad4
    I am an Agnostic and, "I do not know if their exists a god or gods."
    Your capitalization of "god" and "he" is not something an Agnostic would do.
    Would you agree that you don't know everything there is to know that that there may well be ample evidence for the existence of God that you are not aware of?
  10. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    24 May '18 06:38
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Would you agree that you don't know everything there is to know that that there may well be ample evidence for the existence of God that you are not aware of?
    English much be a third or fourth language for you. If you understood what I posted you would not ask such a silly question. Please re-read my post. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
  11. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    24 May '18 07:13
    Originally posted by @caissad4
    English much be a third or fourth language for you. If you understood what I posted you would not ask such a silly question. Please re-read my post. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
    Splendid answer!

    My day is off to a good start.
  12. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    24 May '18 07:15
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Splendid answer!

    My day is off to a good start.
    English much be?

    And “their” instead of “they’re?”

    Yeah, clearly a case of psychological projection
  13. Subscriber BigDoggProblemonline
    The Advanced Mind
    24 May '18 08:10
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Therefore, the agnostic, claiming we can't know, is wrong... if God exists.
    Oh, no, Brother; the Hulkster just dropped a big leg and pinned you.

    It is possible that God exists and yet does so in a way that we, mere humans, cannot possibly be aware of such.
  14. 24 May '18 08:40
    Originally posted by @caissad4
    I am an Agnostic and, "I do not know if their exists a god or gods."
    Your capitalization of "god" and "he" is not something an Agnostic would do.
    Some might, out of respect for the Christian sensitivities.
  15. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    24 May '18 08:42
    Originally posted by @caissad4
    English much be a third or fourth language for you. If you understood what I posted you would not ask such a silly question. Please re-read my post. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
    English much be my third language... 😵

    Dodge noted, btw.