Still Looking

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
ok i will humor you.

all that exists supposedly came from a point-singularity that exploded at time 0 when the event known as the big bang supposedly happened. there was no "before" because there was no time. all matter originated from that event. but we don't know for sure if that is true because it is just a theory. nor can we possibly know what exist ...[text shortened]... he sciency response.

satisified?

curious to see what you will do with this response.

Very funny.

all that exists supposedly came from a point-singularity that exploded at time 0 when the event known as the big bang supposedly happened. there was no "before" because there was no time. all matter originated from that event. but we don't know for sure if that is true because it is just a theory. nor can we possibly know what existed "before". because there was no before. to understand what was before the big bang you would need a system of reference but there is none because nothing existed. on a side note, without time, everything would happen simoultaneously. one blip of all the events in all existance and then nothing.

I see. In other words you don't know.

"...you would need a system of reference but there is none because nothing existed."

I found this statement particularly humorous, yet strangely, if only partially, true.

Originally posted by josephw
I'm still looking for an explanation from the atheist as to where everything came from.

As a Bible believing Christian I believe everything that exists was created by God.

Now, before you atheists start asking questions about what everything is, what I mean by "everything", is, all that exists. All that exists is everything that there is. Everything th ...[text shortened]... em for you, then forget that and demonstrate your understanding of the nature of existence.

Atheists don't have to explain anything. They don't have a point to prove. You want scientific explanations? why?

BTW your religious explanation still doesn't explain where God came from. Who created God? And where did the Universe in which God was created come from? There must have been something such as time and space before God's existence in order for Him to come from a state of non existence into a state of existence. The human brain cannot grasp or visualise the concept of "forever".

Your question is a philosophical one. Or, to put it another way, it has no answer. No one knows and no one ever will. Personally, I am glad there are no answers to your questions, because life would be rather dull if we understood everything about it.

Just imagine what the world would be like if everybody knew what they had to do with their lives and we all had to spend our lives just getting on with it until we died. Nightmare!

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"If your answer is that God has always existed, why can't matter always have existed?!"

Fair question!

Off the top of my head I'd have to say that the concept of "always existed" is beyond our comprehension. I believe God has existed forever because that's what He said.

I can imagine God as a living being, but matter is a different thing. G ...[text shortened]... cientious of it's existence. Matter doesn't have those qualities. Matter simply exists.[/b]

Quote : "I believe God has existed forever because that's what He said. "

Sorry, I never met him. What's his voice like? Is it deep and gruffy like I imagine it to be, or is it sort of feminine a bit?

On the other hand, energy cannot be created nor destroyed - so where did the energy come from to create the big bang, as there was nothing before it?

Just get on with life, and better yourself..... then you are better for others. 😀

Originally posted by twiceaknight
Atheists don't have to explain anything. They don't have a point to prove. You want scientific explanations? why?

BTW your religious explanation still doesn't explain where God came from. Who created God? And where did the Universe in which God was created come from? There must have been something such as time and space before God's existence in orde ...[text shortened]... lives and we all had to spend our lives just getting on with it until we died. Nightmare!

Personally, I am glad there are no answers to your questions, because life would be rather dull if we understood everything about it.

If ignorance is bliss, then you must be very happy.


Just imagine what the world would be like if everybody knew what they had to do with their lives and we all had to spend our lives just getting on with it until we died. Nightmare!

Compared to what? To what life is like now? Knowing "what to do" is a nightmare compared to not knowing what to do?

Grow up!


BTW your religious explanation still doesn't explain where God came from.

I didn't ask the question about where God came from. The question, "where did God come from?" is idiotic since God didn't "come from" anywhere. God is.

Originally posted by josephw
I'm still looking for an explanation from the atheist as to where everything came from.

When I'm about to ask a question but I realize that I'm not able to understand the answer, then I usually reconsider asking the question.

Therefore I never ask questions about the inner mysteries in galois-theory.

Originally posted by twiceaknight
Atheists don't have to explain anything. They don't have a point to prove. You want scientific explanations? why?

BTW your religious explanation still doesn't explain where God came from. Who created God? And where did the Universe in which God was created come from? There must have been something such as time and space before God's existence in orde ...[text shortened]... lives and we all had to spend our lives just getting on with it until we died. Nightmare!

Atheists don't have to explain anything. They don't have a point to prove.
One wonders why 'they' spend so much time doing just that: attempting to explain life; attempting to explain how life began; attempting to prove that God doesn't exist.

BTW your religious explanation still doesn't explain where God came from.
Does this then make the other explanations religious as well? Since the BBT can only hope to say that it all started itself, doesn't this equate with an uncaused cause?

Just imagine what the world would be like if everybody knew what they had to do with their lives and we all had to spend our lives just getting on with it until we died. Nightmare!
Funny thing is, most of what causes the 'nightmares' on this planet is the very issue you suggest would bring them: people don't know what they're supposed to be doing with their lives...

Originally posted by josephw
Very funny.

all that exists [b]supposedly came from a point-singularity that exploded at time 0 when the event known as the big bang supposedly happened. there was no "before" because there was no time. all matter originated from that event. but we don't know for sure if that is true because it is just a theory. nor can we possibl ...[text shortened]...

I found this statement particularly humorous, yet strangely, if only partially, true.[/b]

"I see. In other words you don't know."

i can see how from all those words you went to the conclusion that we don't know. maybe because i told you that we don't know.

"I found this statement particularly humorous, yet strangely, if only partially, true."
what is funny about it? if it is partially true then it must be partially false. what is partially false about it?


so what is funny in general about my post? the fact that i used "supposedly"? the fact that i use "theory" and not fact? the fact that i admit scientists have no ultimate truths? is it funny how scientists are honest about how little do they know whereas big enlightened minds such as yourself boast of ultimate and certain truths?


so what is your answer? and what is this thread's purpose? what are you trying to debate/demonstrate?

Originally posted by josephw
Very funny.

all that exists [b]supposedly came from a point-singularity that exploded at time 0 when the event known as the big bang supposedly happened. there was no "before" because there was no time. all matter originated from that event. but we don't know for sure if that is true because it is just a theory. nor can we possibl ...[text shortened]...

I found this statement particularly humorous, yet strangely, if only partially, true.[/b]

The theory of evolution is a theory. The theory of gravity is a theory. It could be wrong, you may just start floating away!

Originally posted by mikelom
Quote : "I believe God has existed forever because that's what He said. "

Sorry, I never met him. What's his voice like? Is it deep and gruffy like I [b]imagine it to be, or is it sort of feminine a bit?

On the other hand, energy cannot be created nor destroyed - so where did the energy come from to create the big bang, as there was [i]nothi ...[text shortened]... re it?

Just get on with life, and better yourself..... then you are better for others. 😀[/b]

You've never heard God's voice? Maybe you're not listening. Maybe you think God should speak to you on your own terms. Maybe God speaks in a way you haven't thought of. Do you think you will "hear" with your ears when God speaks?


"Just get on with life, and better yourself..."

And then die? "Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die."

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think you've thought it through. You say, "just get on with life", but what does that mean? Get on how? What guides you? One can't "just get on" without a goal. That goal can't be achieved without a guide line.

Living is an art. It "just doesn't happen." We make choices and decisions. Without guidance we flounder. We need truth.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
this proves this cannot be an equal discussion. an atheist can offer many explanations, many of which might be theories or very complicated science, but nothing can be as definitive as your answer: "god did it, god said he did it, anything there is, god did it".

to everything an atheist (better said a scientist) can throw at you, you can reply with "god ...[text shortened]... on "who" whereas science tries to answer "how". it still isn't a reasonable discussion.

... an atheist can offer many explanations, many of which might be theories or very complicated science...
Atheists continue to offer many explanations, all of which are theories (read: wild, unfounded conjectures) and none of which can be considered science, since science requires observation.

... but nothing can be as definitive as your answer: "god did it, god said he did it, anything there is, god did it".
And a definitive answer is precisely what every one is after. Why? We all want to know what to believe, what to think. We all want to be right--- both within our own eyes as well as within the eyes of others, here and now and for posterity. In short, we thirst for knowledge. Knowledge will come either experientially or by faith. An atheist insists that our knowledge be experience based, whereas God has a system designed for man based upon faith. However, an atheist further wishes to have it both ways: experience-based in some regards, but faith-based in others (such as in this situation).

Can those faiths be tested, experimented upon and shown to be 'true' using the various scientific methods? Sure, but only to a limited degree, and only for non-essential elements of their salient issues.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"I see. In other words you don't know."

i can see how from all those words you went to the conclusion that we don't know. maybe because i told you that we don't know.

"I found this statement particularly humorous, yet strangely, if only partially, true."
what is funny about it? if it is partially true then it must be partially false. what is partial ...[text shortened]... nswer? and what is this thread's purpose? what are you trying to debate/demonstrate?

"so what is funny in general about my post?"

I was being facetious.

It always amuses me how some types of theists like Freaky are afraid of science.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]Personally, I am glad there are no answers to your questions, because life would be rather dull if we understood everything about it.

If ignorance is bliss, then you must be very happy.


Just imagine what the world would be like if everybody knew what they had to do with their lives and we all had to spend our lives just getting on with it ...[text shortened]... n, "where did God come from?" is idiotic since God didn't "come from" anywhere. God is.

Ignorance is what we all have, whether you like it or not.

Don't pretend you don't enjoy pondering life's uncertainties. Otherwise why would you be doing just that right now.

There is nothing immature about appreciating that our lives are not prescribed by others (including religious preachers). It really would be awful if we knew from birth exactly what we must do each day. What would be the point in living a life like that, just going through the motions like a robot, knowing exactly what would happen in the end, like a really boring film. It really would be like a nightmare.

You think it's idiotic to talk about God coming into existence but not idiotic to ask about the start of the universe? What's wrong with you?

Anyway, you asked something and I gave you an honest response, why do you feel the need to be insulting? Is your film getting a bit dull Mr knows everything? Rather you than me mate!

Originally posted by twiceaknight
Ignorance is what we all have, whether you like it or not.

Don't pretend you don't enjoy pondering life's uncertainties. Otherwise why would you be doing just that right now.

There is nothing immature about appreciating that our lives are not prescribed by others (including religious preachers). It really would be awful if we knew from birth exac ...[text shortened]... be insulting? Is your film getting a bit dull Mr knows everything? Rather you than me mate!

"It really would be awful if we knew from birth exactly what we must do each day."

What you perceive as an insult is really just my annoyance of ridiculous statements like the one above.

Why make such meaningless statements? Who would ever think of such a thing or even suggest it?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]Atheists don't have to explain anything. They don't have a point to prove.
One wonders why 'they' spend so much time doing just that: attempting to explain life; attempting to explain how life began; attempting to prove that God doesn't exist.

BTW your religious explanation still doesn't explain where God came from.
Does this then make t ...[text shortened]... d bring them: people don't know what they're supposed to be doing with their lives...[/b]

Most Atheists don't feel the need to even discuss it. They spend no time proving anything, in fact they probably don't even call themselves Atheists because they have never stopped to think about it because they don't have a bee in their bonnet about the issue. They are not even interested.

Most of the nightmares on this planet are caused by people who are claiming to know the truth and trying to force people to live accordingly. If everyone could just be honest and admit we don't have a clue, and just look inside themselves on a life-long journey to find a way of living in peace and harmony with themselves and others, without trying to force their beliefs on others, or change others, the world would be a much better place.