Sure Things

Originally posted by Suzianne
What do you mean it's not fair to the rest of us? Not fair?? To the rest of us?? What about them??

I don't want to see sinners burning in torment for all eternity. Are you saying that you do?

Vengeance belongs to the Lord, Ron. Not you. I think perhaps He's better qualified to use it judiciously, and not out of revenge.

What? Did you not hear? Ron is judge and jury for all sinners.. Where have you been? 🙂

John 3: 16-19 (KJV)

16) "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17) For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18) He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19) And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
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Originally posted by Suzianne
What do you mean it's not fair to the rest of us? Not fair?? To the rest of us?? What about them??

I don't want to see sinners burning in torment for all eternity. Are you saying that you do?

Vengeance belongs to the Lord, Ron. Not you. I think perhaps He's better qualified to use it judiciously, and not out of revenge.

I understand vengeance belongs to the Lord. I am not trying to take it away from Him. I just expect Him to do justice and take the vengeance that belongs to Him and torment them day and night forever or however long they deserve to be tormented, as He says in the Holy Bible. I don't have to see it, I am not sadistic.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

(Matthew 3:12 NKJV)

a fire that can never be put out -- J.B. Phillips New Testament

a fire that never goes out -- Good News Translation

never-ending fire -- New Living Translation

inextinguishable fire -- International Standard Version

fire that is not extinguished -- Aramaic Bible in Plain English

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

(Mark 9:43-48 NASB)

I believe the worm that does not die and the fire that is not quenched are the tormentors of the Soul. This is an everlasting torment, one that never ends.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I told you I didn't believe that.

Didn't I start off by saying that? Didn't I?

I don't believe anyone deserves being punished for all eternity. All eternity is a real, REAL long time.

I believe that after the judgement, those found lacking will be sent to the lake of fire, yes, but it will be for the second death, the death of the soul. Your tic ...[text shortened]... eness. It's your choice. Yeah, Free Will! Cool, huh? No worries, mon! Be happy!

"you'll know for certain that there is a God and that He has passed His righteous judgement upon you and that it was your own fault that you'll never know your Creator and that you'll forever be separated from Him. There will be plenty of time for the gnashing of teeth. Oh, and wailing. Plenty of wailing."

Well we will know that our creator is a sadistic egotist, you will apparently will still think It's a nice entity with a penchant for fiery lakes.

You Theist's will never know what it is to be a truly sentient being, you will have squandered your one chance to view yourself and the wider Universe, and that is not a gamble it is happening now as we speak.

Nobody in their right mind would want to spend eternity with your sadistic Sociopath, It would not need to throw Me into It's lake of fire, all I would need were clear directions to that relatively blissful extinction, all the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be coming from you guys, so no change there.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
"you'll know for certain that there is a God and that He has passed His righteous judgement upon you and that it was your own fault that you'll never know your Creator and that you'll forever be separated from Him. There will be plenty of time for the gnashing of teeth. Oh, and wailing. Plenty of wailing."

Well we will know that our creator is a sadistic ...[text shortened]... all the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be coming from you guys, so no change there.

Do you have any quotes from Satan's unholy bible to back up your claim? 😏

Originally posted by kevcvs57
"you'll know for certain that there is a God and that He has passed His righteous judgement upon you and that it was your own fault that you'll never know your Creator and that you'll forever be separated from Him. There will be plenty of time for the gnashing of teeth. Oh, and wailing. Plenty of wailing."

Well we will know that our creator is a sadistic ...[text shortened]... all the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be coming from you guys, so no change there.

What if...

Originally posted by Suzianne
I told you I didn't believe that.

Didn't I start off by saying that? Didn't I?

I don't believe anyone deserves being punished for all eternity. All eternity is a real, REAL long time.

I believe that after the judgement, those found lacking will be sent to the lake of fire, yes, but it will be for the second death, the death of the soul. Your tic ...[text shortened]... eness. It's your choice. Yeah, Free Will! Cool, huh? No worries, mon! Be happy!

Ok. I stand corrected. While your beliefs don't match the bible (but then it is the big book of multiple choice)
I should not be telling you what you believe...

However...

You still believe (and have just said so) that being executed (which is basically what you are claiming god will
do with those who don't believe in and worship him.) is a righteous and just fate for me and everyone like me.

You believe that it's fair and just and right for god to execute me for not worshipping him.


That's sick.


For the record that's a better fate than being stuck sucking up to your god for eternity, and in this "improbable
past all reason and then some" scenario I would absolutely NOT be certain it was my fault.

It would be your gods fault.

If god wants people to believe in and worship him (which makes your god an egotistical ass**le utterly unworthy
of being worshipped) and is going to punish those who don't and reward those that do. Then god is morally and
rationally required to PROVE that he exists to anyone and everyone and make it clear what the rules are.



However your god does not exist. There is no afterlife of any kind. And there is no such thing as free will.

So you are wrong on every count.

As well as clearly deluded and immoral.

Originally posted by googlefudge

Ok. I stand corrected. While your beliefs don't match the bible (but then it is the big book of multiple choice)
I should not be telling you what you believe...

However...

You still believe (and have just said so) that being executed (which is basically what you are claiming god will
do with those who don't believe in and worship him.) is a righ ...[text shortened]... ree will.[/b]

So you are wrong on every count.

As well as clearly deluded and immoral.

"And there is no such thing as free will."

Then why, may I ask, does Suzianne's point of view differ so markedly from your own?
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Originally posted by kevcvs57
"you'll know for certain that there is a God and that He has passed His righteous judgement upon you and that it was your own fault that you'll never know your Creator and that you'll forever be separated from Him. There will be plenty of time for the gnashing of teeth. Oh, and wailing. Plenty of wailing."

Well we will know that our creator is a sadistic ...[text shortened]... all the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be coming from you guys, so no change there.

Absolutely....

Although my one difference is that if I were to learn that the god of the bible exists as described
my first response would be to start planning how to terminate the f***er...

But failing that a quick death is infinitely preferable to being stuck with the bible god for an eternity.

It always amuses me when people claim being separated from the bible god is a bad thing...
When I struggle to think of anything worse than being stuck with that abomination for all eternity.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"And there is no such thing as free will."

Then why, may I ask, does Suzianne's point of view differ so markedly from your own?
.[/b]

Huh?

I don't get your question.

We don't have free will....
The laws of physics forbid it.

What has that got to do with Suzianne and I disagreeing?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"And there is no such thing as free will."

Then why, may I ask, does Suzianne's point of view differ so markedly from your own?
.[/b]

im going to take a guess and say that googlefudge and suzianne have different parents, grew up in different places and had completely different life experiences. thus their brains developed in different ways.

have you ever noticed that on the whole people with in close proximity tend to think alike, the closer they are. couples tend to have similar opinions, families tend to have similar opinions, suburbs, towns, counties, states, countries. if we really had free will and were not just influenced by our surroundings wouldnt you get a much more mixed up demographic for people opinions.

Originally posted by googlefudge

Huh?

I don't get your question.

We don't have free will....
The laws of physics forbid it.

What has that got to do with Suzianne and I disagreeing?

Since birth you've each been presented with a considerable volume of empirical, rational and trust options. You've each made choices to reject; accept; select; and modify the options which fit best within your own evolving frames of reference. Individual Volition was (is still) in play.
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Since birth you've each been presented with a considerable volume of empirical, rational and trust options. You've each made choices to reject; accept; select; and modify the options which fit best within your own evolving frames of reference. Individual Volition was (is still) in play.
.

My computer makes many choices all the time.

However it has no more free will than I do.

Free will doesn't exist. Get over it.

Originally posted by stellspalfie

im going to take a guess and say that googlefudge and suzianne have different parents, grew up in different places and had completely different life experiences. thus their brains developed in different ways.

have you ever noticed that on the whole people with in close proximity tend to think alike, the closer they are. couples tend to have similar o uenced by our surroundings wouldnt you get a much more mixed up demographic for people opinions.

SP, the very wardrobes and refrigerator contents

of the people residing in the same cities and towns negates

the simplistic claims you've chosen to uphold.
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