-Removed-well it somehow evolved over x million years . maybe the devil put it there in 1500 and it never existed before? Syphalis and sin do go together, even to the extent that the only ones to survive it were those who had to eat mouldy bread! the rich took arsenic for it. I'm not sure at all if the bible links them but later christians did over and over.
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-Removed-I'll just open up the library in my back pocket ... are you saying it does not exist or what? I don't know then it dates back too ... i could give you a paragraph on how arsenic did not work for it i know about that. Re the bible i started this thread hoping for a few references which RO provided.
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Originally posted by avalanchethecatThanks, so maybe it was not around then, - but here you have a roman case
Most studies point to a New World origin for syphilis. The disease leaves definite traces in the skeleton, and to my knowledge there is not a great deal of evidence supporting it's presence in 'biblical' populations. Here's a nice paper:
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/40/10/1454.full.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11957923
and i read that Herod Agrippa - king Herod might of died from it??
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-Removed-I think, if you look back at your and my posts, you will see I never addressed the point about leoprosy being syphilis. I simply asked if you were asking about it. I have no comment on this. I commented on the link between leprosy and sin.
I think my previous post does make the point about the link the Bible draws between leprosy and sin. Many interpreters of the Bible see this issue in the same way. If you have an alternative explanation for the need for guilt offerings, sin offerings, atonement, refusal to let someone disfigured from leprosy approaching the altar, its use as a punishment by God and the shunning and stigmatisation of individuals in a way that it is not medically necessary or beneficial, then I am willing to listen. It seems pretty conclusive to me.
I don't know what you mean by 'morality stems from the syphilis'. Who is suggesting this? I am suggesting that leprosy was perceived as a sign of sin, or as a punishment for sin, not that morality comes from leprosy.
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-Removed-This is not about fitting the bible round liberal ideas -
but syphalis was the scourge of the immoral - esp those who went with prostitutes, then took arsenic and mercury to try and hold it back.
I don't think the strict (and yes to my mind possibly to strict) laws of the old testament come from any sin - illness idea. I've said before i think the jews were conservative because they had to flee from nasty polytheistic cultures - egypt - and after that they rightly wanted boring / paid a lot off attention to sin. thats just my theory.
The idea its in the bible in conjecture yes, i've put down what little i know and if you can put down something to counter that all well and good . it seems historically it was not common then but - see the bbc link you do still have a few cases.
Originally posted by e4chrisI recall back in the 1990s there was another suggested case of congenital syphilis in the Old World from a fourth-century context in France. Later expert analysis concluded that the evidence was inconclusive, and was considered more likely to have been consequent to a disorder called 'lithopedion' than from treponemal disease.
Thanks, so maybe it was not around then, - but here you have a roman case
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11957923
and i read that Herod Agrippa - king Herod might of died from it??
It is admittedly difficult to distinguish between the two conditions on an infant skeleton, but the complete absence of evidence from adult skeletons and the extreme rarity in juveniles in the Old World prior to Columbus does rather strongly support a New World origin.
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-Removed-Sorry, I think I took e4chris at face value when he said:
I suppose a better question is does the bible associate Leprosy (which was probably syphalis) with bad morals? Leprosy is in the bible a lot.
I was answering the questions as rephrased, which is that the Bible does indeed associate leprosy with bad morals.