Originally posted by FMF No. I would describe my belief that god may exist as a hunch or a gut feeling in which I place no "faith" whatsoever; And I would describe my belief that god hasn't revealed himself to anyone as a consequence of intellectual and spiritual interaction with people of various faiths who claim he does where they did not present anything to me that seemed to justify placing my "faith" in.
Hold on, this doesn't add up. You said a while ago that you believed your faith was real when you were a Christian, now you are saying that you have never been presented with anything that seemed to justify placing your "faith" in? So either you were lying when you said your faith was real or you are lying now when you say you have never been presented with anything that justified placing your faith in.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk [b]Hold on, this doesn't add up. You said a while ago that you believed your faith was real when you were a Christian, now you are saying that you have never been presented with anything that seemed to justify placing your "faith" in?/b]
Good point. Yes I used to have faith in Jesus and, at that time it was sincere and real to me, without a doubt.
I should have said since I lost that faith. After that, Christianity - for me - became just another competing set of claims to be presenting "truth" about the revelation of god.
My belief that god hasn't revealed himself to anyone is because people of various faiths who claim he has have not presented anything to me ~ in my post-Christian years ~ that seemed convincing enough for me to justify placing my "faith" in.
I used to have faith - it was real to me at the time - but now I have lost that faith.
You should, of course, read my previously slightly ambiguously worded with that in mind.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk So either you were lying when you said your faith was real or you are lying now when you say you have never been presented with anything that justified placing your faith in.
Of course, if you stop and think about it for a moment, what I meant was that I have never been presented with anything that justified placing my faith in since I lost my religious faith. There is no "lying" involved.
Originally posted by FMF Good point. Yes I used to have faith in Jesus and, at that time it was sincere and real to me, without a doubt.
I should have said [b]since I lost that faith. After that, Christianity - for me - became just another competing set of claims to be presenting "truth" about the revelation of god.
My belief that god hasn't revealed himself to anyone is bec ...[text shortened]... th.
You should, of course, read my previously slightly ambiguously worded with that in mind.[/b]
Either you have been presented with something that seemed convincing enough to justify placing your faith in or you haven't. So which is it? You can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk Either you have been presented with something that seemed convincing enough to justify placing your faith in or you haven't. So which is it? You can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk See my edited post above.
I used to be a Christian with Christian faith which was real to me; and now I am no longer a Christian. So on what do you base the accusation that I am "lying" about either one of these two realities about my life?
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk In the past you have been presented with something that seemed convincing enough to justify placing your faith in. So you can't say you haven't.
You are either deliberately ignoring the content of my posts at the top of this page, or you didn't read them and, regardless, posted as if you had read them.
In your defence, you could perhaps plead that you do not understand how the present perfect tense is used. But that would make you seem silly. If I were you, I'd use one of the two options above [1. simply ignored their content, or 2. didn't bother to read them] as your explanation. 😉
Originally posted by FMF You are either deliberately ignoring the content of my posts at the top of this page, or you didn't read them and, regardless, posted as if you had read them.
In your defence, you could perhaps plead that you do not understand how the present perfect tense is used. But that would make you seem silly. If I were you, I'd use one of the two options above [1. simply ignored their content, or 2. didn't bother to read them] as your explanation. 😉
From this point in time dating back, at some point in your life, you did find something convincing enough to place your faith in it. That is a fact that you cannot change even if you claim to have lost this faith.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk From this point in time dating back, at some point in your life, you did find something convincing enough to place your faith in it. That is a fact that you cannot change even if you claim to have lost this faith.
You pulled me up on the implications of my sloppy/hasty typing at the bottom of the previous page. And you are now deliberately ignoring the clarification I immediately gave you on this page. Why do you behave like this?
So, anyway, here's another post of mine that you seem to have deliberately ignored: I used to be a Christian with Christian faith which was real to me; and now I am no longer a Christian. So on what do you base your accusation that I am "lying" about either one of these two realities about my life?
Originally posted by FMF Your beliefs about an afterlife are examples of "faith" right? You can't prove it. There is no evidence. But you believe it. You are sincere. You are certain. You count on it being true. That's "faith", right?
Are you seriously rejecting the evidence that we all die and our lives end? It doesn't require "faith" to know that this is so.
Your claims about some continuation of life after death exist in the realms of "faith".
Originally posted by Eladar So do you agree with me about faith? Yes or no?
I agree that your hopes and conjecture about there being some supernatural state of immortality (of some kind) that you're headed for is based on "faith". Your earnestness and certainty do not add up to evidence that what you have faith in is real. Even you must admit that. But you and I and karoly aczel all know for a fact that we are going to die and that it is a reality that we all face. It does not take "faith" to know that it is inevitable that we will all pass away. Anything beyond that which you hope for or predict is all a matter of "faith".
Originally posted by FMF I agree that your hopes and conjecture about there being some supernatural state of immortality (of some kind) that you're headed for is based on "faith". Your earnestness and certainty do not add up to evidence that what you have faith in is real. Even you must admit that. But you and I and karoly aczel all know for a fact that we are going to die and that it i ...[text shortened]... ll all pass away. Anything beyond that which you hope for or predict is all a matter of "faith".
take a stand
12 Jan '17 07:561 edit
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