Taking Quality Questions on Revelation

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke

Fair enough sonship, it was posted a distant 6 days ago (This very thread, - page 7 ).

You wrote: 'So I don't think more time needs to be spent on how you became an unbeliever...Details of your splendid present position as an unbeliever are your own affair, kept as your own peculiar treasured secret.'

The floor is yours sir.

Okay, I see what the issue is. Let me look at the charge and the evidence to give my fair assessment. In a moment hopefully.

Originally posted by @sonship

Fair enough sonship, it was posted a distant 6 days ago (This very thread, - page 7 ).

You wrote: 'So I don't think more time needs to be spent on how you became an unbeliever...Details of your splendid present position as an unbeliever are your own affair, kept as your own peculiar treasured secret.'

The floor is yours sir.

Oka ...[text shortened]... s. Let me look at the charge and the evidence to give my fair assessment. In a moment hopefully.

Please do not over-exert yourself on our account, Sir.

Here's the charge.

Didn't you suggest very recently that non-believers like me should keep our beliefs secret?

Here's what I wrote which seems to have given rise to the charge

'So I don't think more time needs to be spent on how you became an unbeliever...Details of your splendid present position as an unbeliever are your own affair, kept as your own peculiar treasured secret.'

1.) I did not intend that all non-believers be secretive about what they really believe. But I can see how FMF could take it that way.

These were my specific remarks to him alone. He extrapolated them out to mean this is my attitude towards everybody who is an unbeliever in Christ.

It is likely that he will continue to insist that that is the case.

2.) The remark was tailored not to ALL unbelievers or all seeking people or all undecided about that they will do with Jesus Christ.

The remark was tailored toward ONE individual on this Forum. THAT individual, to me, coveys the posture as follows:

Ie. [paraphrased]
I USE to be a Christ loving believer in Jesus, the way you poor deluded still asleep Christians are now. You'll just have to take my word for that. Trust me.

Don't ask me too much about how I became a Christian who decided to become an unbeliever. You'll only get scant generalities, like " I decided it was no longer tenable "

Those are not up for discussion. Take a Wink and Smile and the assurance that I was an OLD HAND and knew ALL about believing in Jesus.

My writing this, for what its worth ...
[and maybe it was not the best thing for me to write, being somewhat sarcasm]

'So I don't think more time needs to be spent on how you became an unbeliever...Details of your splendid present position as an unbeliever are your own affair, kept as your own peculiar treasured secret.'

is my way of telling you that I do not intend to pull the details from you like pulling teeth about the process from which you [allegedly] went from a Jesus lover to a Jesus non-believing skeptic.

It is obvious to me from years of reading your stuff that you don't want to discuss those details. You want us to just take your word for it that ...

Hey everybody! I found out that God and Jesus Christ are not REAL ! Trust me.

Now I suspect that you're going to have some knee jerk disagreement with what I have said here. But I really don't care. I want to get back to talking about the book of Revelation.

Entertain Ghost or entertain Rajk999 or entertain whoever else you think will be interested in your arguing. Enough time has been spent on this for me.

One last thing. I was once an unbeliever. And I would not encourage unbelievers to be secretive in a general way because my experience was that I had no belief for certain and was like the restless waves of the sea.

In the morning I had one belief. By the evening I had another.
I was restless, tossed about, un-anchored. And that is not something I would wish on anyone.

There was nothing to be secretive about. There was not solid ground to stand on. There was only nebulous uncertainty.

WHY? (now I am going beyond the purpose of the post)
WHY? Because it is not a matter of just having some new MENTAL information to NOD about intellectually. It is about meeting a living Person - Jesus Christ.

It is not about deciding on a philosophy but receiving as Lord and Savior an unusual, unseen yet miraculously available Person - the living God.

"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" ( 1 Cor. 15:45)

Originally posted by @sonship
Here's the charge.

Didn't you suggest very recently that non-believers like me should keep our beliefs secret?

Here's what I wrote which seems to have given rise to the charge

'So I don't think more time needs to be spent on how you became an unbeliever...Details of your splendid present position as an unbeliever are you ...[text shortened]... i] Hey everybody! I found out that God and Jesus Christ are not REAL ! Trust me. [/i]

Do you have a list of other members of this community - i.e. people who have different beliefs from you - who you also think should keep their beliefs secret?

Originally posted by @sonship
"Paraphrasing" FMF: "I USE to be a Christ loving believer in Jesus, the way you poor deluded still asleep Christians are now. 

I have never said anything remotely like this in all my years here. You're making stuff up.

Originally posted by @sonship
Now I suspect that you're going to have some knee jerk disagreement with what I have said here. But I really don't care. I want to get back to talking about the book of Revelation.

Hey sonship, will you be standing with me on the "being ashamed of Jesus" issue I've raised in Thread 176968?

I'm not asking you to like me, agree with me or anything like that. I'm asking who will stand by me against the trolling I'm getting from Romans1009 accusing me of being ashamed of Jesus and the gospel etc.

Or of course you can stand by Romans1009, but if you think he is wrong......

Thanks for looking.

Originally posted by @sonship
[It was] my way of telling you that I do not intend to pull the details from you like pulling teeth about the process from which you [allegedly] went from a Jesus lover to a Jesus non-believing skeptic.

But, sonship, no one has asked you "to pull the details from [me] like pulling teeth". Certainly not me. Gosh. Your 'defence' of the stupid thing you said is eye-wateringly self-centred.

Originally posted by @fmf
I have never said anything remotely like this in all my years here. You're making stuff up.

So we talked out you a little. I'm going to get back now to the book of Revelation.

Originally posted by @sonship
So we talked out you a little. I'm going to get back now to the book of [b]Revelation.[/b]

You were just fabricating stuff. I thought you were against that, as a matter of principle.

Originally posted by @sonship
So we talked out you a little. I'm going to get back now to the book of [b]Revelation.[/b]

Okay, here we go. Revelation 7:1:

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."


Is the Earth flat after all?

Originally posted by @sonship
So we talked out you a little. I'm going to get back now to the book of [b]Revelation.[/b]

Ignoring the situation doesn't make it go away sonship, this is a matter of principle and integrity.

I'm not requesting you support me, I'm requesting that you choose, that you let your principle and integrity over come your dislike of me or your disapproval of Romans1009.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Okay, here we go. Revelation 7:1:

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."


Is the Earth flat after all?

Maybe the writer envisioned a map of the world.

Speaking of flat Earth. Do you have any pictures you can share that prove the Earth isn't flat? 😵

Originally posted by @divegeester
Hey sonship, will you be standing with me on the "being ashamed of Jesus" issue I've raised in Thread 176968?

I'm not asking you to like me, agree with me or anything like that. I'm asking who will stand by me against the trolling I'm getting from Romans1009 accusing me of being ashamed of Jesus and the gospel etc.

Or of course you can stand by Romans1009, but if you think he is wrong......

Thanks for looking.

Why do you keep misrepresenting what I said? I said you were ashamed *to believe in* Jesus. I specified, since atheists didn’t understand the difference between being ashamed of Jesus and being ashamed of *believing in* Jesus that *believing in* Jesus means believing He was God in the flesh, that He was crucified for the sins of the world and that He was Resurrected. That’s what I think you’re ashamed to believe - if you believe it at all.

BTW, your neediness is becoming most unattractive.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Ignoring the situation doesn't make it go away sonship, this is a matter of principle and integrity.

I'm not requesting you support me, I'm requesting that you choose, that you let your principle and integrity over come your dislike of me or your disapproval of Romans1009.

Your neediness and desperation are quite unattractive, but what’s most unattractive is your continuing campaign to pit believers against one another.

What you fail to realize is regardless of what sonship thinks of your silly and frivolous self-centered nonsense, I won’t be angry or upset at sonship or anyone else who sides with you. I respect people’s right to their own opinions. Apparently you do not - unless they’re atheist or Christ-denying trolls.