Thanks to Sonship for Opening My Eyes

Originally posted by sonship

After some discussion with Sonship, the issue of torment is becoming clearer. Here is what I think the bible says about who are the prime candidates for torment:

1. Spiritual Beings - Devil or Satan, False Prophet and the Beast, described in Revelation. These face eternal torment simply because they are eternal beings and cannot die.

...[text shortened]... o are cursed".
The backslidden Christians of Hebrews 6:8 are "near a curse."[/b]

1. The 3 beings are not human
2. The end of these evil people BURNING.

Originally posted by Rajk999
1. The 3 beings are not human
2. The end of these evil people BURNING.

1. The 3 beings are not human
2. The end of these evil people BURNING.

If Antichrist is not human why is he called the "man of lawlessness" ?

" Let no one deceive you in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed." ( 2 Thess. 2:3)

I will accept "I can't answer that at this time " as a respectable reply.

Originally posted by sonship

1. The 3 beings are not human
2. The end of these evil people BURNING.

If Antichrist is not human why is he called the [b]"man of lawlessness" ?

" Let no one deceive you in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed." ( 2 Thess. 2:3)

[/b]

II Thes 2 is referring to SATAN / DEVIL.. nothing on Antichrist there.
Revelation speaks of The Devil, the Beast and the False Prophet.
Beast and false prophet are common words used for different people all over the bible.
The 3 in Revelation are supernatural beings.

That is my interpretation. Of course yours will be different.
Its is of no relevance in the overall scheme of things.

Originally posted by sonship
I will accept "I can't answer that at this time " as a respectable reply.

Patience is not one of your virtues. 11 minutes and you are falling off your chair?
I have other things to do pal.
Go read your bible.

II Thes 2 is referring to SATAN / DEVIL.. nothing on Antichrist there.

No, the "man of lawlessness" comes in the power of another - Satan.

" ... and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition. (v.3)
...
The coming of whom is according to Satan's operation in all power and signs and wonders of a lie. " (v.9)

He comes in the power of Satan's energizing. He is not Satan himself. He is the man of lawlessness.

Revelation speaks of The Devil, the Beast and the False Prophet.
Beast and false prophet are common words used for different people all over the bible.
The 3 in Revelation are supernatural beings.

The dragon Satan gives to the Beast his authority.

"And the beast which i saw was like a leopard, and his feet like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon GAVE HIM HIS POWER and his throne and great authority." (Rev. 13:2)

That is my interpretation. Of course yours will be different.
Its is of no relevance in the overall scheme of things.

The Antichrist is a man.
The man is given authority by Satan the dragon.
The man is not Satan.

For all intents and purposes he becomes one with Satan - true.
But he is not Satan.

You do have some case to say that there is something supernatural about him.
For as a man he is slain and resuscitated to simulate a kind of resurreciton.
And that is a Satanic miracle.

"And one of his heads was as it were slain to death, and his death stroke was healed. And the whole earth marveled after the beast.

And they worshipped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like the beast ? And who can make war with him ? "
(Rev. 13:3,4)

The coming of this Beast, the Antichrist, is with Satanic miracles. So I would agree that there is something supernatural about him. But he is not Satan and is a man - one who was slain and resuscitated in order to deceive the world that he is like Jesus Christ Who rose from the dead.

Perhaps the number 666 also suggests something like "TOO MUCH MAN". For man was created on the 6th day.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Patience is not one of your virtues. 11 minutes and you are falling off your chair?
I have other things to do pal.
Go read your bible.

I still will accept "I can't answer that now " as a valid reply.

You could just take correction and realize that you had it wrong.
The Antichrist will be a man.

Originally posted by sonship

II Thes 2 is referring to SATAN / DEVIL.. nothing on Antichrist there.

No, the [b]"man of lawlessness" comes in the power of another - Satan.

[quote] " ... and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition. (v.3)
...
The coming of whom is according to Satan's operation in all power and signs and wonders of a lie. ...[text shortened]... mber [b]666 also suggests something like "TOO MUCH MAN". For man was created on the 6th day.[/b]

You need to start reading some of Jewish literature, like some of the books of the Bible which were not included in the KJV and some of the Midrash writings of Jewish scholars. Widen your scope of knowledge. You read too much opinions of people who have read only the bible .. there is no widening of knowledge with that.

Failure to read more surrounding literature of the time, is like a man who reads the writings of say Christopher Columbus 500 years ago and is telling me he knows more about life in Trinidad and Tobago.

To understand Revelation in particular it is necessary to do that. Satan [if he does exist[, has a whole heavenly host of beings who follow him. He is in opposition to God, but he is a small fry with a small following. None of these beings are mortal men. These are all former angels who turned to evil and have been terrorizing the earth since the time of Adam. Much of the killings in the time of the early Jews, were of entire nations who were under the influence of the Devils angels and this is why God had to eliminate them completely.

Revelation speaks of a time when Satan and his angels are tormented. You mistake that to mean some people are in that group. People are permanently destroyed, while immortal beings are tormented.

Originally posted by Rajk999

You need to start reading some of Jewish literature, like some of the books of the Bible which were not included in the KJV and some of the Midrash writings of Jewish scholars. Widen your scope of knowledge. You read too much opinions of people who have read only the bible .. there is no widening of knowledge with that.

Which part of this paragraph proved to me that the Antichrist was not a human man ?

Failure to read more surrounding literature of the time, is like a man who reads the writings of say Christopher Columbus 500 years ago and is telling me he knows more about life in Trinidad and Tobago.

Which part of this paragraph demonstrated to me that the Antichrist will not be man ?

To understand Revelation in particular it is necessary to do that. Satan [if he does exist[,

I always figured that if we give you long enough to talk your true state of unbelief in the Bible would eventually be exposed.

Satan - if he exists ?
Is this what reading tons of other books has done for you ?

has a whole heavenly host of beings who follow him. He is in opposition to God, but he is a small fry with a small following.

When we are in Christ we realize how utterly vanquished this enemy of God is.

None of these beings are mortal men.

You've stated it. But you have not given good reasons from the Scripture why the Antichrist or the False Prophet are not men.

These are all former angels who turned to evil and have been terrorizing the earth since the time of Adam. Much of the killings in the time of the early Jews, were of entire nations who were under the influence of the Devils angels and this is why God had to eliminate them completely.

The man of lawlessness is a MAN ... of lawlessness. 1 Thess. 2:3.
You can't refute this.

Revelation speaks of a time when Satan and his angels are tormented. You mistake that to mean some people are in that group. People are permanently destroyed, while immortal beings are tormented.

Matthew 25:41 has Christ sending rebellious humans to the place prepared for the Devil and his angels.

" ... Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS." (vs. 41)

What was prepared for Satan is to where they also go.
Don't blame me for taking the word of Jesus Christ here as He stated it.

How can a spiritual being like Satan be punished by fire ?
Good question. I don't know.

BUT the word of God says that these punished from the nations go to the place "prepared for the devil and his angels".

It cannot be positive, physics and science aside.

Originally posted by @sonship

You need to start reading some of Jewish literature, like some of the books of the Bible which were not included in the KJV and some of the Midrash writings of Jewish scholars. Widen your scope of knowledge. You read too much opinions of people who have read only the bible .. there is no widening of knowledge with that.

Which part of thi ...[text shortened]... epared for the devil and his angels".

It cannot be positive, physics and science aside.[/b]

There is also a good argument for Satan being simply a personification of sin in the flesh. Whether or not Satan exists physically has no bearing on me and my life. I would say that a belief in a physical being called Satan has done more to damage the church and destroy the weakminded believers, than any other doctrine. Either way I dont care about that. It has nothing to do with me. Its the job of Jesus and Michael to destroy that being if it exists.

Was not Jesus also called 'a man'. Jesus was never just a man.

Jesus Christ is God become a man, for the purpose of becoming God's life dispensed into people, for the building up of the corporate habitation of God a living dwelling place of God in man as a fulfillment of His eternal purpose.