25 Sep 08
1 edit
What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.
Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?
You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that is he walked the walk. He was the real deal. Come to think of it, maybe that is why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by whodeyIf only fervency of belief was a good indicator of that belief's validity, you Pauline-Christians would have it made. As well as Muslims. And political revolutionaries. And anyone else in history that has lived and died for a cause. 😛
What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.
Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?
You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that ...[text shortened]... s why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by SwissGambitPauline-Christians? C'mon, the disciples met with Paul and gave him the Good ol' boy Apostle Seal of Approval. If he was good enough for Peter, then he's okay by me. A bit arrogant and a pain to work with, I feel sure, but what's the anti-Paul sentiment about? Am I to just excise all the books Paul wrote from my Bible? Then what if someone says that John was not inspired? Or Luke was Paul's lackey?
If only fervency of belief was a good indicator of that belief's validity, you Pauline-Christians would have it made. As well as Muslims. And political revolutionaries. And anyone else in history that has lived and died for a cause. 😛
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydWhy do you believe that all of the texts attributed to St Paul are, in fact, authored by St Paul?
Pauline-Christians? C'mon, the disciples met with Paul and gave him the Good ol' boy Apostle Seal of Approval. If he was good enough for Peter, then he's okay by me. A bit arrogant and a pain to work with, I feel sure, but what's the anti-Paul sentiment about? Am I to just excise all the books Paul wrote from my Bible? Then what if someone says that John was not inspired? Or Luke was Paul's lackey?
Nemesio
25 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PinkFloydOf course, of course. Short of disbelieving in the existence of St Paul (an absurd position), naturally
I don't. But I believe SOME of those attributed to him were in fact written by him.
some (if not most, frankly) are written at least substantially by him.
But the 'Good Ol'boy Apostle Seal of Approval' would only apply to those letters, not to the ones
written long after he and most of the Apostles (save perhaps St John) were martyred. Such
examples would include at the very least the so-called Pastoral Epistles.
With the exception of the 'we passages,' it's unlikely that St Luke and St Paul were associated
with each other; there are disagreements between the two on the description and timing of events,
for example. Another piece of evidence is that nothing of St Paul's writing is directly quoted
by St Luke, even the most striking or beautiful stuff that we can find in Romans or I Corinthians.
Given St Luke's love of speeches (comprising about a quarter of the text), it's hard to believe
that he would not avail himself of the material afforded by the ever-prolix St Paul. Furthermore,
St Luke himself admits that his testimony has been handed down and thoroughly investigated
rather than experienced by the author (again, excepting the 'we passages' in Acts).
Nemesio
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydI have no doubt whatsoever that when someone said that St Thomas was not inspired you were quite happy to excise his book (The Gospel of Thomas) from your Bible.
Pauline-Christians? C'mon, the disciples met with Paul and gave him the Good ol' boy Apostle Seal of Approval. If he was good enough for Peter, then he's okay by me. A bit arrogant and a pain to work with, I feel sure, but what's the anti-Paul sentiment about? Am I to just excise all the books Paul wrote from my Bible? Then what if someone says that John was not inspired? Or Luke was Paul's lackey?
The only Christians I have ever heard question whether a book should remain in the bible are my parents who questioned whether the book of revelation should be included - but I doubt even they would have actually tried to remove it. Sometimes tradition is stronger than good sense.
25 Sep 08
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadRevelation was the last book to be accepted into the modern Bible and, despite claims to the
I have no doubt whatsoever that when someone said that St Thomas was not inspired you were quite happy to excise his book (The Gospel of Thomas) from your Bible.
The only Christians I have ever heard question whether a book should remain in the bible are my parents who questioned whether the book of revelation should be included - but I doubt even they would have actually tried to remove it. Sometimes tradition is stronger than good sense.
contrary by Protestants, remained a bone of contention for over a millennium (i.e., as it pertains
to inspiration and whether it belonged).
By contrast, Protestants excise seven books from the Old Testament that were accepted at the
same time as all the others texts but, ironically suffered far less disagreement over the centuries
than Revelation.
Martin Luther wanted to excise the Epistle of St James, too (but that's pretty hush, hush
amongst Lutherans nowadays).
Nemesio
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by whodeyI have no doubt that the terrorists aboard the various plane on 9/11 were willing to die for their beliefs as they demonstrated. Are they deserving of greater respect for that attribute? I personally give more respect to people willing to question their beliefs rather than follow them blindly to death.
What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.
Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?
I have more respect for someone who dies for another or dies for his principles than someone who dies in the selfish (and mistaken) belief that it will help get his soul into heaven.
You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that is he walked the walk. He was the real deal. Come to think of it, maybe that is why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
I have known Christians who walked the walk and were the 'real deal'. Some of them would even question some of Pauls writings.
I think those who target Paul do so based on the fact that from a laymans point of view - without the benefit of the Holy Spirit translating - it sure looks like Pauls message is rather different from Jesus' and in some ways less desirable. It also looks like he is no different from the many many fervent Christians who have followed since who had strong beliefs and were the 'real deal', and wrote copious works, and yet did not manage to get their writings into the Bible.
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by NemesioYet a shockingly large number of people think that the current set was chosen and signed off by God himself.
Revelation was the last book to be accepted into the modern Bible and, despite claims to the
contrary by Protestants, remained a bone of contention for over a millennium (i.e., as it pertains
to inspiration and whether it belonged).
By contrast, Protestants excise seven books from the Old Testament that were accepted at the
same time as all the other ...[text shortened]... Epistle of St James, too (but that's pretty hush, hush
amongst Lutherans nowadays).
Nemesio
Even more shocking is the number of people who think that it was all put together (Authorized?) by King James - but lets not go there for now.
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by whodeyI love Paul. 😀
What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.
Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?
You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that ...[text shortened]... s why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by whodeyWould you be willing to admit that Martin Luther would fit the same description? Do you give him the same amount of respect? Do you think he too receives criticism because he was the 'real deal'?
What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.
Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?
You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that ...[text shortened]... s why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
25 Sep 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadYes, however, you must realize that there are differences. Specifically, Martin Luther was a student of Paul and not vice versa. In addition, Paul was a contemporary of Jesus's disciples and well versed in Rabbinical teachings to boot. Such a highly educated individual was the natural choice for advancing the Christian message from which all other theologians within Christiandome sprang.
Would you be willing to admit that Martin Luther would fit the same description? Do you give him the same amount of respect? Do you think he too receives criticism because he was the 'real deal'?
25 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo you are comparing suicidal murderers to that of Paul? It is like comparing Ghandi to a suicide bomber because both may be willing to give up their life for their cause but one is willing to inflict evil to do so while the other refuses. 🙄
[b]I have no doubt that the terrorists aboard the various plane on 9/11 were willing to die for their beliefs as they demonstrated. Are they deserving of greater respect for that attribute? I personally give more respect to people willing to question their beliefs rather than follow them blindly to death.
I have more respect for someone who dies for another ...[text shortened]... meone who dies in the selfish (and mistaken) belief that it will help get his soul into heaven.
[