1. Joined
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    25 Sep '08 04:511 edit
    What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.

    Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?

    You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that is he walked the walk. He was the real deal. Come to think of it, maybe that is why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
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    25 Sep '08 05:16
    Originally posted by whodey
    What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.

    Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?

    You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that ...[text shortened]... s why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
    If only fervency of belief was a good indicator of that belief's validity, you Pauline-Christians would have it made. As well as Muslims. And political revolutionaries. And anyone else in history that has lived and died for a cause. 😛
  3. weedhopper
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    25 Sep '08 06:01
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    If only fervency of belief was a good indicator of that belief's validity, you Pauline-Christians would have it made. As well as Muslims. And political revolutionaries. And anyone else in history that has lived and died for a cause. 😛
    Pauline-Christians? C'mon, the disciples met with Paul and gave him the Good ol' boy Apostle Seal of Approval. If he was good enough for Peter, then he's okay by me. A bit arrogant and a pain to work with, I feel sure, but what's the anti-Paul sentiment about? Am I to just excise all the books Paul wrote from my Bible? Then what if someone says that John was not inspired? Or Luke was Paul's lackey?
  4. Standard memberNemesio
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    25 Sep '08 06:17
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Pauline-Christians? C'mon, the disciples met with Paul and gave him the Good ol' boy Apostle Seal of Approval. If he was good enough for Peter, then he's okay by me. A bit arrogant and a pain to work with, I feel sure, but what's the anti-Paul sentiment about? Am I to just excise all the books Paul wrote from my Bible? Then what if someone says that John was not inspired? Or Luke was Paul's lackey?
    Why do you believe that all of the texts attributed to St Paul are, in fact, authored by St Paul?

    Nemesio
  5. weedhopper
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    25 Sep '08 06:25
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Why do you believe that all of the texts attributed to St Paul are, in fact, authored by St Paul?

    Nemesio
    I don't. But I believe SOME of those attributed to him were in fact written by him.
  6. Standard memberNemesio
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    25 Sep '08 06:391 edit
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    I don't. But I believe SOME of those attributed to him were in fact written by him.
    Of course, of course. Short of disbelieving in the existence of St Paul (an absurd position), naturally
    some (if not most, frankly) are written at least substantially by him.

    But the 'Good Ol'boy Apostle Seal of Approval' would only apply to those letters, not to the ones
    written long after he and most of the Apostles (save perhaps St John) were martyred. Such
    examples would include at the very least the so-called Pastoral Epistles.

    With the exception of the 'we passages,' it's unlikely that St Luke and St Paul were associated
    with each other; there are disagreements between the two on the description and timing of events,
    for example. Another piece of evidence is that nothing of St Paul's writing is directly quoted
    by St Luke, even the most striking or beautiful stuff that we can find in Romans or I Corinthians.
    Given St Luke's love of speeches (comprising about a quarter of the text), it's hard to believe
    that he would not avail himself of the material afforded by the ever-prolix St Paul. Furthermore,
    St Luke himself admits that his testimony has been handed down and thoroughly investigated
    rather than experienced by the author (again, excepting the 'we passages' in Acts).

    Nemesio
  7. Cape Town
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    25 Sep '08 07:00
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Pauline-Christians? C'mon, the disciples met with Paul and gave him the Good ol' boy Apostle Seal of Approval. If he was good enough for Peter, then he's okay by me. A bit arrogant and a pain to work with, I feel sure, but what's the anti-Paul sentiment about? Am I to just excise all the books Paul wrote from my Bible? Then what if someone says that John was not inspired? Or Luke was Paul's lackey?
    I have no doubt whatsoever that when someone said that St Thomas was not inspired you were quite happy to excise his book (The Gospel of Thomas) from your Bible.
    The only Christians I have ever heard question whether a book should remain in the bible are my parents who questioned whether the book of revelation should be included - but I doubt even they would have actually tried to remove it. Sometimes tradition is stronger than good sense.
  8. Standard memberNemesio
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    25 Sep '08 07:052 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I have no doubt whatsoever that when someone said that St Thomas was not inspired you were quite happy to excise his book (The Gospel of Thomas) from your Bible.
    The only Christians I have ever heard question whether a book should remain in the bible are my parents who questioned whether the book of revelation should be included - but I doubt even they would have actually tried to remove it. Sometimes tradition is stronger than good sense.
    Revelation was the last book to be accepted into the modern Bible and, despite claims to the
    contrary by Protestants, remained a bone of contention for over a millennium (i.e., as it pertains
    to inspiration and whether it belonged).

    By contrast, Protestants excise seven books from the Old Testament that were accepted at the
    same time as all the others texts but, ironically suffered far less disagreement over the centuries
    than Revelation.

    Martin Luther wanted to excise the Epistle of St James, too (but that's pretty hush, hush
    amongst Lutherans nowadays).

    Nemesio
  9. Cape Town
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    25 Sep '08 07:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.

    Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?
    I have no doubt that the terrorists aboard the various plane on 9/11 were willing to die for their beliefs as they demonstrated. Are they deserving of greater respect for that attribute? I personally give more respect to people willing to question their beliefs rather than follow them blindly to death.
    I have more respect for someone who dies for another or dies for his principles than someone who dies in the selfish (and mistaken) belief that it will help get his soul into heaven.

    You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that is he walked the walk. He was the real deal. Come to think of it, maybe that is why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
    I have known Christians who walked the walk and were the 'real deal'. Some of them would even question some of Pauls writings.
    I think those who target Paul do so based on the fact that from a laymans point of view - without the benefit of the Holy Spirit translating - it sure looks like Pauls message is rather different from Jesus' and in some ways less desirable. It also looks like he is no different from the many many fervent Christians who have followed since who had strong beliefs and were the 'real deal', and wrote copious works, and yet did not manage to get their writings into the Bible.
  10. Cape Town
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    25 Sep '08 07:16
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Revelation was the last book to be accepted into the modern Bible and, despite claims to the
    contrary by Protestants, remained a bone of contention for over a millennium (i.e., as it pertains
    to inspiration and whether it belonged).

    By contrast, Protestants excise seven books from the Old Testament that were accepted at the
    same time as all the other ...[text shortened]... Epistle of St James, too (but that's pretty hush, hush
    amongst Lutherans nowadays).

    Nemesio
    Yet a shockingly large number of people think that the current set was chosen and signed off by God himself.
    Even more shocking is the number of people who think that it was all put together (Authorized?) by King James - but lets not go there for now.
  11. Illinois
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    25 Sep '08 08:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.

    Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?

    You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that ...[text shortened]... s why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
    I love Paul. 😀
  12. Cape Town
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    25 Sep '08 09:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    What a great guy!! You know, after all the negative posts about him around here I thought he could use a little love.

    Now for those of you who have issues with him, ask yourself this, do you have beliefs that you would dedicate your entire life for as well as be willing to die for?

    You may not believe the way he did, but one thing is for sure and that ...[text shortened]... s why he is such a target by those who oppose the Christian theology for various reasons? Hmmm?
    Would you be willing to admit that Martin Luther would fit the same description? Do you give him the same amount of respect? Do you think he too receives criticism because he was the 'real deal'?
  13. Joined
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    25 Sep '08 15:271 edit
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    I love Paul. 😀
    Now thats what I'm talk'in about!! See there is still a little love left in this world for Paul. These other posters are a little slow to come around, no?
  14. Joined
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    25 Sep '08 15:33
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Would you be willing to admit that Martin Luther would fit the same description? Do you give him the same amount of respect? Do you think he too receives criticism because he was the 'real deal'?
    Yes, however, you must realize that there are differences. Specifically, Martin Luther was a student of Paul and not vice versa. In addition, Paul was a contemporary of Jesus's disciples and well versed in Rabbinical teachings to boot. Such a highly educated individual was the natural choice for advancing the Christian message from which all other theologians within Christiandome sprang.
  15. Joined
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    25 Sep '08 15:351 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    [b]I have no doubt that the terrorists aboard the various plane on 9/11 were willing to die for their beliefs as they demonstrated. Are they deserving of greater respect for that attribute? I personally give more respect to people willing to question their beliefs rather than follow them blindly to death.
    I have more respect for someone who dies for another ...[text shortened]... meone who dies in the selfish (and mistaken) belief that it will help get his soul into heaven.

    [
    So you are comparing suicidal murderers to that of Paul? It is like comparing Ghandi to a suicide bomber because both may be willing to give up their life for their cause but one is willing to inflict evil to do so while the other refuses. 🙄
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