29 Oct 09
Originally posted by 667joeThere's no logical reason per se why the Universe might not be eternal. The only problem is that there are a number of things about the Universe that make it look unlikely that it is. Decaying energy / heat , the Big bang (suggestive of a beginning) etc.
If everything requires a cause, what was the cause of god? If god does not require a cause and has always been here, then why can't the universe have always been here also?
The Big bang alone leads one to suspect that the Universe had a "start" or beginning. I find it hard to think of something that has a beginning not having a cause of some sort. However , even a causeless Universe that had a beginning would not have "always been here".
30 Oct 09
Originally posted by 667joeAnything that is immaterial does not need a beginning, such as logic and reason. God is immaterial so He does not need a beginning. The universe is material, so it needs a beginning.
You have avoided the problem. If every thing requires a beginning, how did god get here?
God and the universe are not the same things, so we cannot ask the same questions of two things that are different in the first place.
30 Oct 09
Originally posted by SharpeMother"Anything that is immaterial does not need a beginning,.."
Anything that is immaterial does not need a beginning, such as logic and reason. God is immaterial so He does not need a beginning. The universe is material, so it needs a beginning.
God and the universe are not the same things, so we cannot ask the same questions of two things that are different in the first place.
That's not entirely true. The angels are spirit beings that are made of immaterial stuff. I think.
30 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwHow does a god define itself?
You don't.
If there is a God, as defined by Himself, then He has no beginning.
All we have to go by is the written accounts of people from the past, and the eyewitness accounts of people who claim to have experienced god in some way.
That's not enough - at least, as presented, it's not enough.
Where's the verifiable proof that god exists and has no beginning?
30 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwOk, so some things that are immaterial have a beginning, I guess like our souls as well... but not all things that are immaterial need to have had a beginning, would you agree? Because if everything needs a beginning then so does God. But not everything needs a beginning.
[b]"Anything that is immaterial does not need a beginning,.."
That's not entirely true. The angels are spirit beings that are made of immaterial stuff. I think.[/b]
Also, only immaterial things can create other immaterial things. God is immaterial so He can create an element of us to be immaterial, like Himself. I think that's partially what He meant when He says that we are created in His image.
30 Oct 09
Originally posted by SharpeMotherLogic requires no beginning? That's a strange thought.
Anything that is immaterial does not need a beginning, such as logic and reason. God is immaterial so He does not need a beginning. The universe is material, so it needs a beginning.
God and the universe are not the same things, so we cannot ask the same questions of two things that are different in the first place.
Equally strange is your notion that god is immaterial - what exactly does that mean, and how does god influence the material world, if it's immaterial?
30 Oct 09
Originally posted by amannion"How does a god define itself?"
How does a god define itself?
All we have to go by is the written accounts of people from the past, and the eyewitness accounts of people who claim to have experienced god in some way.
That's not enough - at least, as presented, it's not enough.
Where's the verifiable proof that god exists and has no beginning?
By revelation. God reveals Himself. Otherwise no one would know Him. Does that make sense to you?
30 Oct 09
Originally posted by amannionImmaterial things prove the existence (or at the very least the possibility of the existence) of God.
How does a god define itself?
All we have to go by is the written accounts of people from the past, and the eyewitness accounts of people who claim to have experienced god in some way.
That's not enough - at least, as presented, it's not enough.
Where's the verifiable proof that god exists and has no beginning?