1. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    21 Jul '09 09:01
    A certain 'dim' monk was going to get his koan from his master.
    The master was giving out the same koan to all the monks:" the bhudda is No-mind"
    Apparently the words for "No-mind" and "grass shoes" were pretty similar and this certain 'dim' monk understood "grass shoes" instead of the former.
    This monk went on with the 'contemplation' of his 'koan'.
    This preciously stupid monk is said to have reached enlightenment by contemplating "the bhudda is grass shoes" as a koan.
    What does this story tell you about the 'ground of reality'? Surely that it is not bound by verbal interpretations
  2. Joined
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    21 Jul '09 09:22
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    A certain 'dim' monk was going to get his koan from his master.
    The master was giving out the same koan to all the monks:" the bhudda is No-mind"
    Apparently the words for "No-mind" and "grass shoes" were pretty similar and this certain 'dim' monk understood "grass shoes" instead of the former.
    This monk went on with the 'contemplation' of his 'koan'. ...[text shortened]... e 'ground of reality'? Surely that it is not bound by verbal interpretations
    That's what pot will do to ya. 😛
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    21 Jul '09 09:38
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    What does this story tell you about the 'ground of reality'? Surely that it is not bound by verbal interpretations
    Firstly we should not make the mistake of thinking that because a story says something is so then it is so. Secondly, the message I get from the story is that deep contemplation may lead to enlightenment regardless of what you contemplate. Sadly I do not know enough about enlightenment to know if this is actually so. Maybe I should contemplate on it a bit.
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    21 Jul '09 09:42
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Firstly we should not make the mistake of thinking that because a story says something is so then it is so. Secondly, the message I get from the story is that deep contemplation may lead to enlightenment regardless of what you contemplate. Sadly I do not know enough about enlightenment to know if this is actually so. Maybe I should contemplate on it a bit.
    When I first encountered this story there were names and dates but,alas,my brain has failed to recall these points.
    This story fits in with a lot of the other zen canon.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    21 Jul '09 09:53
    Originally posted by whodey
    That's what pot will do to ya. 😛
    Oh Whodey!,why let the truth get in the way of a good yarn?😛
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    21 Jul '09 10:14
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    When I first encountered this story there were names and dates but,alas,my brain has failed to recall these points.
    This story fits in with a lot of the other zen canon.
    Are the names and dates relevant?
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    21 Jul '09 10:49
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Are the names and dates relevant?
    I dont think so
  8. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    21 Jul '09 13:46
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Firstly we should not make the mistake of thinking that because a story says something is so then it is so. Secondly, the message I get from the story is that deep contemplation may lead to enlightenment regardless of what you contemplate. Sadly I do not know enough about enlightenment to know if this is actually so. Maybe I should contemplate on it a bit.
    "Enlightenment" is a slight shifting of the point of your attention which it enables you to realize that, either you stand under conceptual awareness or under non-conceptual awareness it is enough to leave yourself observing whatever you observe; hovering in the world of your conceptual awareness is as real as hovering in the world of your dreams, and dreaming is as real as your conceptual awareness.

    "Enlightenment" is merely the trap you use in order to become able to get the fish; once you get the fish you need no trap. Eating when you 're hungry is enough, but you may need too much time in order to digest some fish. Breathing is valuable; it is enough to breath in Negativity and to breath out your Joy. Inhale Negativity, exhale Joy -and then feel free to monitor how perfectly everything fits in all of your worlds.

    The stuff of these very words is dream. I am a dream and you are a dream, so any method designed to the gaining of the so called "enlightenment" must be abandonned once your trap is ready; the truth is You herenow, and you are fully responsible for everything you do, and everything you do is related strictly to your personal point of attention. "Enlightenment" is just your personal skill required in order to get a fish, and you already have every tool you need for fishing.

    Who needs "enlightenment" afterall? All you need are the tools that they will enable you to set the right trap with which you will catch the fish. It would be absurd to worship them tools I reckon😵
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    21 Jul '09 19:18
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Oh Whodey!,why let the truth get in the way of a good yarn?😛
    Far out dude. Sorry, surfs up, gotta go!!
  10. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    22 Jul '09 00:16
    Originally posted by black beetle
    "Enlightenment" is a slight shifting of the point of your attention which it enables you to realize that, either you stand under conceptual awareness or under non-conceptual awareness it is enough to leave yourself observing whatever you observe; hovering in the world of your conceptual awareness is as real as hovering in the world of your dreams, and d ...[text shortened]... th which you will catch the fish. It would be absurd to worship them tools I reckon😵
    I agree. I loathe to talk about 'enlightenment' and if we were one to one I'm sure I wouldn't mention it.
    However on a public forum its nice to see how different people react to different words.
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    22 Jul '09 00:20
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Oh Whodey!,why let the truth get in the way of a good yarn?😛
    Because the Truth is more important.
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    22 Jul '09 00:33
    Originally posted by daniel58
    Because the Truth is more important.
    Truth is usually more important except in certain circumstances where that 'truth' comes and hunts you down and you would be willing to believe any 'good yarn' ,(about Jesus maybe),to save you from this deplorable state. Although you may already know that and have as much trouble with linguistics as I do.
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    22 Jul '09 00:38
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Truth is usually more important except in certain circumstances where that 'truth' comes and hunts you down and you would be willing to believe any 'good yarn' ,(about Jesus maybe),to save you from this deplorable state. Although you may already know that and have as much trouble with linguistics as I do.
    Not quite sure what you mean by "good yarn" but it's never good to sacrifice the Truth.
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    22 Jul '09 00:43
    Originally posted by daniel58
    Not quite sure what you mean by "good yarn" but it's never good to sacrifice the Truth.
    A 'good yarn' is like a 'tall story' but not strictly speaking. Usually its a story that starts with a kernel of truth and then becomes exaggerated by repitition via word of mouth. Of course sometimes its just totally untrue, in which case I would call it just a 'yarn'. (and thats what sheep do)
  15. Hmmm . . .
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    22 Jul '09 03:37
    Originally posted by black beetle
    "Enlightenment" is a slight shifting of the point of your attention which it enables you to realize that, either you stand under conceptual awareness or under non-conceptual awareness it is enough to leave yourself observing whatever you observe; hovering in the world of your conceptual awareness is as real as hovering in the world of your dreams, and d ...[text shortened]... th which you will catch the fish. It would be absurd to worship them tools I reckon😵
    Once again, I bow! Such a troublesome word that “enlightenment” has become!

    But, without karoly’s wonderful story (and those like it), what would we have to say?

    Grass shoes!

    Those who don’t know “grass shoes” are already enlightened (what need to bother them?). Those who understand “grass shoes” are enlightened. Those who are confused are still confused. If it were not for them—and my own confusions!—I wouldn’t say anything.

    But, right now—

    Sultry night:
    the tree frogs
    through the open window
    scolding me!
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