Originally posted by lemon limeWHY THE BIB BANG NEVER HAPPENED
I suspect the title of this thread was simply to generate interest, because the debate isn't over whether the big bang happened or not... the relevant question to be asking here isn't [b]if it happened, but why.[/b]
I believe the video does give many reasons WHY the Big Bang never happened. First, nothing can't produce something. That is, an explosion can't come from nothing, and even if it could, an explosion would cause chaos, not an orderly universe.
Check the video carefully for the other reasons. Courteous of . . .
The Near Genius 😏
Originally posted by RJHindsYeah, I know you can't get something from nothing. But that's what I mean when I say the question isn't IF it happened. And we shouldn't be asking atheists WHY, because as far as they are concerned there is no "why".
[b]WHY THE BIB BANG NEVER HAPPENED
I believe the video does give many reasons WHY the Big Bang never happened. First, nothing can't produce something. That is, an explosion can't come from nothing, and even if it could, an explosion would cause chaos, not an orderly universe.
Check the video carefully for the other reasons. Courteous of . . .
The Near Genius 😏[/b]
We must limit our questions and comments to HOW it happened, otherwise they can fall back on wisecracks and mockery when they don't know how to reasonably explain something as basic as getting something from nothing. They know full well this can't be done, so with a little slight of hand they'll tell you something in the nothing was acted on by some other nothing force (which also doesn't exist) and then lo and behold, something from nothing.
Originally posted by lemon limeScience can't have it both ways if scientists believe it had to have happened one way OR the other (not both). Either something was there to become something else, or some (other) outside force or agency was able to create something that had not previously existed.
Yeah, I know you can't get something from nothing. But that's what I mean when I say the question isn't IF it happened. And we shouldn't be asking atheists WHY, because as far as they are concerned there is no "why".
We must limit our questions and comments to HOW it happened, otherwise they can fall back on wisecracks and mockery when they don't know ...[text shortened]... e other nothing force (which also doesn't exist) and then lo and behold, something from nothing.
Originally posted by lemon limeDon't limit science with your own ideas.
Science can't have it both ways if scientists believe it had to have happened one way OR the other (not both). Either something was there to become something else, or some (other) outside force or agency was able to create something that had not previously existed.
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Originally posted by lemon limeBefore you said the question should be why, now you are even rulling that out.
Yeah, I know you can't get something from nothing. But that's what I mean when I say the question isn't IF it happened. And we shouldn't be asking atheists WHY, because as far as they are concerned there is no "why".
We must limit our questions and comments to HOW it happened, otherwise they can fall back on wisecracks and mockery when they don't know ...[text shortened]... e other nothing force (which also doesn't exist) and then lo and behold, something from nothing.
So now you say the question should be HOW it happened. But they already have answers to HOW it happened, just like they have for HOW EVIL-Lution happened, even thought the answers are not correct.
There is nothing that keeps them from falling back on wisecracks, ridicule, and ad hominem attacks. That is what they always do when they have no convincing explanation. They are willing to accept any miracle as long as it is not attributed to the God of Genesis.
Originally posted by lemon limeI don't believe this video is actually intended for atheists who don't accept the possiblity of a creative intelligence outside the physical universe. I believe it is for those that are open to that possibility. I don't believe we can convince someone of something they don't want to believe no matter how good our magic might be. I believe this is for those with an open mind to accept logical conclusions.
Science can't have it both ways if scientists believe it had to have happened one way OR the other (not both). Either something was there to become something else, or some (other) outside force or agency was able to create something that had not previously existed.
Originally posted by RJHindsI'm not ruling out 'why' except when talking to atheists. They can interpret 'why' as meaning 'the reason' it happens, and if they know you believe in God they will automatically assume you are talking about what you believe. So if you don't happen to agree with them (for whatever reason) on some particular matter pertaining to science, they can then claim it is because of your religion.
Before you said the question should be [b]why, now you are even rulling that out.
So now you say the question should be HOW it happened. But they already have answers to HOW it happened, just like they have for HOW EVIL-Lution happened, even thought the answers are not correct.
There is nothing that keeps them from falling b ...[text shortened]... . They are willing to accept any miracle as long as it is not attributed to the God of Genesis.[/b]
It's not up to us who God chooses to reveal himself to. If you hammer away at them they will hammer away at you, and visa versa... and nothing gets done.
Originally posted by RJHindsI should have read your last message before posting, because I agree only God is in a position to reveal himself to someone who is genuinely seeking him.
I don't believe this video is actually intended for atheists who don't accept the possiblity of a creative intelligence outside the physical universe. I believe it is for those that are open to that possibility. I don't believe we can convince someone of something they don't want to believe no matter how good our magic might be. I believe this is for those with an open mind to accept logical conclusions.
Originally posted by lemon limeWhy can't God use Christians to reveal Himself to others? I believe God used the prophets up to Jesus and then the Christian apostles. So why not Christians like us? Do you believe I am so worthless that God can not use me?
I should have read your last message before posting, because I agree only God is in a position to reveal himself to someone who is genuinely seeking him.
Originally posted by RJHindsNo, my point is you and I are powerless to do what only God can do. But maybe I'm only speaking from my own experience. The people who led me to God didn't actually say much, but I was impressed by what they did say. And these encounters were spread out over a period of a few years, so these were all people who seemed to randomly cross paths with me.
Why can't God use Christians to reveal Himself to others? I believe God used the prophets up to Jesus and then the Christian apostles. So why not Christians like us? Do you believe I am so worthless that God can not use me?
This is difficult to explain, but when these people were talking to me I couldn't shake the feeling they already knew me, and understood what was going through my mind. These were all strangers I met at various times, but for only one brief time for each stranger... it was like talking to the same person at various times during a period of a few years, but it was never the same person.
I know how this all sounds, but I don't want to go into any great detail at a public forum... I can tell you this much, shortly after I became a Christian I told someone who claimed to be one himself, and he thought I was nuts. So I learned early on that not everything is what it appears to be, and not everyone is who he says he is.