The book of Revelation

@kellyjay said
1 Peter 3
Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and ...[text shortened]... God's will, than for doing evil.

Trust me, been there, done that! It is a difficult thing to do.

Immediately preceding that passage there is this from Peter

For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. (1 Peter 3:12 KJV)

You people preach a doctrine devoid of righteousness. Your doctrine promotes sin and evil. The Lord is therefore against you and those who promote similar doctrines.

@rajk999 said
Immediately preceding that passage there is this from Peter

For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. (1 Peter 3:12 KJV)

You people preach a doctrine devoid of righteousness. Your doctrine promotes sin and evil. The Lord is therefore against you and those who promote similar doctrines.

You are the one who claims only some scripture is required, not all, you have not told anyone yet how you came by this knowledge. How is anyone else supposed to know? Is limited to you and you alone? You want to explain why I can quote some scripture that goes to the topic I was talking about, and that is devoid of righteousness? Yet you can dismiss who knows how much of the Bible as unnecessary, and that is good?

@sonship said
@divegeester
YOU systematically IGNORE fair exchange of challenges sent BACK your way.

You are making this up.

@kellyjay said
I try not to ignore any fair exchanges of ideas and points of view. The name-calling and arguing points to the point of getting personal is part of this place an unavoidable evil here, I suppose. I don't ignore people for things get said in the heat of the moment, I'm not above that either, so when it is pointed out I behaved as an a$$, and I did, I try to apologies, I'm as ...[text shortened]... an equitable, fair exchange, not worth the effort to continue about that conversation or any other.

You ignore certain people because your beliefs about yourself and your version of Christianity do not bear scrutiny.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

[quote] Where I will draw the line is when things are said, when words that were used get changed into other words and meanings purposely misrepresented from my intent. That is unacceptable, yet it is possible that can happen when attempting to acquire understanding and clarification by resaying what you think they meant back to them in other words; however, when ...[text shortened]... ow him why such a problem that he has with my faith is not a problem for me because of this or that.

Will Jesus be in hell overseeing the casting of non Christians into the lake of fire. Yes or no?

I rest my case...

@kellyjay said
You are the one who claims only some scripture is required, not all, you have not told anyone yet how you came by this knowledge. How is anyone else supposed to know? Is limited to you and you alone? You want to explain why I can quote some scripture that goes to the topic I was talking about, and that is devoid of righteousness? Yet you can dismiss who knows how much of the Bible as unnecessary, and that is good?

There are people who never read the bible, but who heard Christ preach to them. They know what is required for eternal life. You have more than they do but you cannot understand.

@kellyjay said
Many times it drives the conversations into personal attacks and drags it into the mud

Certain Christians here have called/accused those of who you ignore:

- spreaders of faeces and germs
- of having diseased minds
- of causing hundreds of people to be burnt alive in hell
- of being an a$$hole
- of being a heretic
- dozens of other “personal attacks”

I’ve not called anyone any other these things.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

Today is not a good day for me to talk from a high ground of behavior.
I am returning provocation with provocation on a poster.

Give yourself a couple of days off to get “Jesus flowing through you” again and you’ll be back on track.

@rajk999 said
There are people who never read the bible, but who heard Christ preach to them. They know what is required for eternal life. You have more than they do but you cannot understand.

Can you justify ignoring and even suggesting anyone who takes Jesus' word that all of the Word of God is important and we need to live by it all, while you say differently?

The seven churches in Revelation 1 - 3 are an anti-testimony of what God's will is on the earth from the time of Christ's establishment of the church until His coming back.

The victim culture of your video I saw in contrast to God's establishing lampstands in the earth to testify of an overcoming life in the saints.

First, we should see that regardless of the conditions of each church, to God's view they were all the same "golden lampstands".

They were the embodiment of the Triune God dispensed into man in the cities of man to shine and testify to the world of Christ's salvation.

What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven churches:

to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamos and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.

And I turned to see the voice that spoke to me; and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands,

And in the midst of the lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breasts with a golden girdle. [/b]

In these seven localities Christ as a High Priest established churches - one per locality.

The gold speaking of the divine nature of the Father - for these churches.
The form of the gold into a lampstand speaking of the Son as the embodiment of the Father - for these churches.
The shinning of the light from the oil speaking of the Holy Spirit as the expression manifested from these churches.

This is God's view of the church on the earth.

How does this above relate to a "victimized culture" ?

Christ as a High Priest seeks to tend to the local churches that they may be an anti-testimony like golden shinning lampstands manifesting divine light in a dark age of victims of the fall.

That is why in each church at the end of each letter there is a call to overcome.
Seven local churches - seven promises to those who overcome.

Seven churches to produce overcomers to be rewarded in the age commencing at the second coming of Christ. Yet this is rather continuing to hold fast to the victory that they already should be enjoying. That victory to continue in greater degree into the next age.

There is a lot here. And some fellowship I hope will bring it out more clearly.

For now think of victim culture or any other kind of culture from the fall of society contrasted with lampstands of overcoming believers as local churches, testifying in the cities of man over the earth.

@sonship said
How does this above relate to a "victimized culture" ?

Christ as a High Priest seeks to tend to the local churches that they may be an anti-testimony like golden shinning lampstands manifesting divine light in a dark age of victims of the fall.

That is why in each church at the end of each letter there is a call to overcome.
Seven local churches - seven promises to ...[text shortened]... ampstands of overcoming believers as local churches, testifying in the cities of man over the earth.

I'm going to wait till you get through to the end of the link on victim culture. I think you will see somethings that are powerful concerning how we view each other and our world views.

@KellyJay

I'm going to wait till you get through to the end of the link on victim culture. I think you will see somethings that are powerful concerning how we view each other and our world views.

I finished it. I myself am a descendant of African slaves brought to this US. And I know firsthand what he means about this. I have my ancestors' story as others with a different story have theirs.

I think initially I thought that the book of Philppians is the best book for me to deal with these matters. But what you started here on Revelation is good too yet far, far more esoteric because of the nature of Revelation as compared to Paul's letter to the Philippians.

I have a weakness of being too eager about what I want to write about then to hear what someone needs to talk about sometimes. Okay, a lot.

I am presently still undecided. Philippians is probably a better choice. And I mean Paul's word there gives quite much attention to Christians being holding forth the word of life and shinning as lights in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation.

The biggest help I have received in this regard is probably what I learned in The Life Study of Philippians by Witness Lee on the most important Christian virtue of all - FOREBEARANCE.

He taught us in the church life that FORBEARANCE in the Christian life is defined by - Being satisfied with LESS then your due.

"Let your forbearance be made known to all men." See Philppians 4:5.

And he showed us how Philppians, praise God, was a book focusing on this most important virtue -

That is, in Christ, in the power of Christ, to be able to be satisfied with LESS then what you feel you are OWED, less then what you feel is your due.

It was very powerful and helpful to me. I first heard those messages around the early 1980s as a working student with a small family in Boston University in Boston Mass.

I stop here.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

I'm going to wait till you get through to the end of the link on victim culture. I think you will see somethings that are powerful concerning how we view each other and our world views.

I finished it. I myself am a descendant of African slaves brought to this US. And I know firsthand what he means about this. I have my ancestors' story as oth ...[text shortened]... 980s as a working student with a small family in Boston University in Boston Mass.

I stop here.

I've read some about Witness Lee he is referenced by other writers I like and I think they too got things out of his testimony over the years. I try to not put to much into any single person least I end up with an idolatry issue, I have enough issues in my life already don't want to add another. 🙂

I believe posting here has taught me a few things, like in the game of chess I'm better off sitting on my hands instead of jumping on the first GREAT UNSTOPPABLE move I see. Reason being, another profound statement I believe I read in Chess Life once, "I had the perfect plan, but he made all the wrong moves." comes into play. 🙂 So I'm trying to not just write the first thing that springs up, it is to easy to jump in the mud with someone whose whole intent is to drag you there with them. It is a work in progress with me, and its easy to see when I later have to go back and hit my head on a desk going, "why did I say that that way?" LOL

@KellyJay

I've read some about Witness Lee he is referenced by other writers I like and I think they too got things out of his testimony over the years. I try to not put to much into any single person least I end up with an idolatry issue, I have enough issues in my life already don't want to add another. 🙂

As for the positive referencing of other Christian writers:
It was not so while he was alive. Gradually, some appreciation is growing here and there. IMO the truth will grow and not knowing WHO to credit most of us who are Christians will one day come in unconditional surrender to the truth - the truth of the Holy Spirit who seeks to lead the Christian public into all the truth.

In the spiritual warfare that is taking place, a servant of God like that brother (who died in 1997) RAGED to stop such speaking.

What you see a little more here and there now was not so in the 60s through 90s when this gifted servant of God lived pouring himself out for the Christian public.

Now one little sentence more and I'll stop on Witness Lee. To this day it is a shame IMO that Christian bookstores will not carry this man's books.

If you have some other thoughts you would like to air take them over to the thread "The Wisdom of Witness Lee" if it is still operative. Ghost started it.

IMO a person comes around like that to feed the Christians maybe about every 500 - 700 YEARS. Right under our nose, someone was so consecrated to open up the word of God like the noonday sun.

I'm sorry. Please forgive me. There were times when I sat under that ministry and the anointing of the Holy Spirit was so strong that I could not even take notes. I stopped and all I could hear was this voice.

Okay enough.

I believe posting here has taught me a few things, like in the game of chess I'm better off sitting on my hands instead of jumping on the first GREAT UNSTOPPABLE move I see. Reason being, another profound statement I believe I read in Chess Life once, "I had the perfect plan, but he made all the wrong moves." comes into play. 🙂 So I'm trying to not just write the first thing that springs up, it is to easy to jump in the mud with someone whose whole intent is to drag you there with them. It is a work in progress with me, and its easy to see when I later have to go back and hit my head on a desk going, "why did I say that that way?" LOL

Quickly back to the issue at hand. The very symbol of golden lampstands in cities means testifying communities where righteousness can be seen, equity can be seen, peace, joy, love, forbearance can be seen.

Now this does not mean that the churches there were utopias. But they were fertile ground upon which God could carry out His dispensing of Christ into people for the growth of God in people for the overcoming of His people.

I learned this. And if I do not give some mention of that fact I have expected that the charge of plagiarism is liable to come from some eager critics.