Originally posted by buckkyI see these myriads of saints as idols. Or as the hindu gods, one for each ocation.
It always seemed odd that the Catholics pray to certain Saints. In no other form of Christianity would that be allowed. What can a Saint do for you that God or Jesus cannot do ? I know Jesus, and God are the same person but you know what I mean.
Originally posted by buckkyI believe it is not entirely restricted to Roman Catholicism, but I could be wrong.
It always seemed odd that the Catholics pray to certain Saints. In no other form of Christianity would that be allowed. What can a Saint do for you that God or Jesus cannot do ? I know Jesus, and God are the same person but you know what I mean.
However other Christians have the same apparent need to have a mediator and have thus separated God into parts so that they can pray to one part (Jesus or the Holy ghost) to mediate with the more threatening part (the almighty). Although most Christians say Jesus is God they still specifically pray to Jesus more often than to 'God'.
Originally posted by buckkyYou can pray to saints because they're close to God.
It always seemed odd that the Catholics pray to certain Saints. In no other form of Christianity would that be allowed. What can a Saint do for you that God or Jesus cannot do ? I know Jesus, and God are the same person but you know what I mean.
I guess its like when you're in a shop and you talk to the salesperson instead of talking to the manager. Get it?
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Originally posted by buckkyActually, it is quite a common practice in Christianity. Orthodox and high-church Anglicans pray to saints. In fact, anyone who prays the Hail Mary is doing this.
It always seemed odd that the Catholics pray to certain Saints. In no other form of Christianity would that be allowed. What can a Saint do for you that God or Jesus cannot do ? I know Jesus, and God are the same person but you know what I mean.
Obviously no Christian can seriously hold that there are some things a saint can do which God cannot. The point of honoring the saints in the first place is that they are particular examples of God's grace (as St. Paul said I live - not me, but Christ in me). Catholics pray to sai
Originally posted by buckkyIt's no less odd than all the Christian denominations that name their churches after a saint.
It always seemed odd that the Catholics pray to certain Saints. In no other form of Christianity would that be allowed. What can a Saint do for you that God or Jesus cannot do ? I know Jesus, and God are the same person but you know what I mean.
Originally posted by pawnhandlerThat is quite different. Honoring someone is not equivalent to praying to them. It is common practice in many countries to name roads, towns etc after famous people - or people you want to make famous for political reasons. It is not particularly odd nor does it contradict the basic concept of praying to God. Praying to saints however does have possible conflicts.
It's no less odd than all the Christian denominations that name their churches after a saint.
They are on;y conflicts because you make them, I could honor you by inviting you over for dinner and letting you sit and the best spot at my table AND I could ask you to help me move. Who would you go to first your Father who might not grant what you want or your Mother will most likely persuade your your Father to get what you want
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Originally posted by buckkyWe have had this discussion before. The veneration of saints, pilgrimages to their tombs and intercessory prayers to saints are extremely common in the Orthodox churches. It is not just a Catholic thing. Many Anglicans also pray the Hail Mary and some even pray the Salve Regina. Prayer to the saints have a long tradition in Christian churches.
It always seemed odd that the Catholics pray to certain Saints. In no other form of Christianity would that be allowed. What can a Saint do for you that God or Jesus cannot do ? I know Jesus, and God are the same person but you know what I mean.
And, as I explained last time, a Christian does not pray to the saints because the saint can do something which Jesus cannot. The idea, especially in Orthodox churches, is that heaven is like an Emperor's court where many people come to petition the Emperor. It often helps to plead to one in the Emperor's inner circle. The prayer is indirectly intended for God.
EDIT: I see I have already responded to this thread. Why was it brought up again?
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Originally posted by Conrau KHow is it logically possible for this to apply? Can there really exist a prayer that God would grant if several saints petitioned him to grant it, but not otherwise? If God is perfectly good, then he should grant or deny the request solely in virtue of whether it is the right thing to do, regardless of who or how many people petition him to do so.
The idea, especially in Orthodox churches, is that heaven is like an Emperor's court where many people come to petition the Emperor.
If you believe that your analogy actually applies, please construct an example scenario.
You are committed to a dilemma: you must either acknowledge that prayer is practically futile vis a vis having the prayer granted, or that God sometimes grants or denies prayers when it is wrong to do so.
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI am not an Orthodox Christian so do not have to justify this devotion.
How is it logically possible for this to apply? Can there really exist a prayer that God would grant if several saints petitioned him to grant it, but not otherwise? If God is perfectly good, then he should grant or deny the request solely in virtue of whether it is the right thing to do, regardless of who or how many people petition him to do so.
If you believe that your analogy actually applies, please construct a example scenario.